Council fined £20k for saw injury - Saw Stop would have prevented this

[Nick.]

According to the HSE, while pushing wood through the saw, Mr Soday felt a pain in his right index finger and immediately turned off the machine.

When he looked down, he saw his finger lying on the bench.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx02yelq84go

At the risk of starting another Saw Stop vs push stick thread - The biggest take off this statement that I get and know is that a serious injury doesn't immediately hurt as much as it will do in the next few 5 mins/hours/days and months/ maybe years - It's amazing how the body reacts at the time.

That is no consolation though when it happens. Safe cutting to all.

 

[williams1185]

more questions than answers there if he felt the pain why wasnt he looking at what hes doing ?

 

[TRITON]

Technician using a table saw but not trained to use said saw. Just what kind of people are they employing ???

You would think a tech in a design and tech department would know wft he was doing with every machine in there, and if he doesn't, then he shouldn't have been employed as such.

He would after all be supervising pupils, and in that position should be able to watch how they perform the tasks at hand, and stop them if they are doing anything outwith the safety protocols.

Maybe a case of a trained and qualified tech costs more to employ .

 

[Jacob]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx02yelq84go

At the risk of starting another Saw Stop vs push stick thread

Well you did say "Saw stop would have prevented this" in the title!
So would a few minutes training - at a fraction of the cost and applicable to nearly all the machines he might meet in a lifetime.

 

[deema]

Elf and safety gone mad and a sign of the world we now live in. The council needed to have told the chap not to stick his fingers into the saw blade and had him sign to say he understood. How the heck did he cut off his right index finger? I can understand cutting of a few / nicking the next finger, but to cut off just the index finger??
Had an incident in one of the factories where a bloke hit his hand with a hammer, broke his finger. We got clobbered as we had not informed him not to hit his hand with a hammer as it could hurt and cause injury. Yep, UK HSE found against us, and I kid you not, that was the finding, they also found us lapse for not having a risk assessment for using a hammer FFS.

 

[TRITON]

Well you did say "Saw stop would have prevented this" in the title!
So would a few minutes training - at a fraction of the cost and applicable to nearly all the machines he might meet in a lifetime.

"Fraction of the cost" well maybe not the case as training won't be cheap.

And it would be more than a few minutes. Or is that all you have ?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

It used to be the case that training ensured the capable could operate safely, protecting both themselves and others through adoption of sound working practices.

Training is now undertaken so employer can avoid claims when there is an "event" - " the member of staff should have known - they were trained". Carelessness, stupidity, inattention etc are eliminated

A substitute for common sense or a evidence that sense is "uncommon"?

 

[Nick.]

Elf and safety gone mad and a sign of the world we now live in. The council needed to have told the chap not to stick his fingers into the saw blade and had him sign to say he understood. How the heck did he cut off his right index finger? I can understand cutting of a few / nicking the next finger, but to cut off just the index finger??
Had an incident in one of the factories where a bloke hit his hand with a hammer, broke his finger. We got clobbered as we had not informed him not to hit his hand with a hammer as it could hurt and cause injury. Yep, UK HSE found against us, and I kid you not, that was the finding, they also found us lapse for not having a risk assessment for using a hammer FFS.

Yup Deema this is why, as we all know, we have to complete 'box lifting' courses etc - I had to do one online 15 years ago - the main purpose was so the company could win a legal claim if we were ever injured - I can't actually think of anything that course told me that I didn't already know that was not common sense.
That said, correct training in specialities is crucial I think - this seems where the council failed.

 

[Adam W.]

Except that lower back injuries from poor lifting technique are actually a real thing in the workplace.

Just saying.

 

[Inspector]

Proper training and following good practices would have prevented the injury. A SawStop would have mitigated it to a minor cut if there had been a failure to follow the safety practices or some other distraction occurred leading to blade contact.

Pete

 

[deema]

Proper training and following good practices would have prevented the injury. A SawStop would have mitigated it to a minor cut if there had been a failure to follow the safety practices or some other distraction occurred leading to blade contact.

Pete

Except that the saw is either a Wadkin AGS or a Startrite (both have almost identical fence / similar looking crown guard), both of which have the DOL on the right hand side of the machine. So, he says he switched it off and then noticed his index finger on the table…..so how did he switch the saw off using his right hand and index finger which is what you would / have to use? Is it just me that thinks something isn’t quite right in the reported incident?

 

[Daniel2]

IMO, it's not even a case of "training".
Our Mr Soday is sadly representative of today's society.
Is he/she/it incapable of assuming a minimum of responsibility
for themselves ?
Absolutely pathetic, made worse by the fact that he/she/it was
deemed not responsible.
We're doomed I tell ye....

 

[Sebb]

Shouldn’t have been allowed to use the machine without proper training, simple as.

 

[Spectric]

A council has to pay more than £20,000 after a lack of proper training led to a school technician losing a finger when using a circular bench saw.

Why did the council pay out, safety is a two way thing and the council were at fault for failing to deliver the training but equally the school technician was in the wrong for using a machine they had not been trained on and within there rights to refuse to use it but carried on anyway so they accepted the risk of injury.

 

[--Tom--]

We all know that training people to drive cars solves all injuries and airbags/seatbelts etc are just unnecessary costs that could be avoided by driving safely. Don’t crash and you won’t get injured- simple

Or perhaps not

 

[Doug71]

Unfortunately these days Saw Stop is probably the answer. They could have bought 10 of the Saw Stop equipped Festool saws for the cost of that one fine, the chap would still have his finger and no doubt more fingers would be saved in the future.

 

[Spectric]

No mater how much training you deliver, safety features and safety systems are employed you will still get incidents because humans are just that way inclined, they have moments of reboot during which the brain is not fully engaged.

How is the sawstop safety function tested, anything delivering a safety function has to be proven just like an RCD so do you have to periodically present it with meat to see if it actually still works ?

We all know that training people to drive cars

How many people are actually trained to drive cars, you get taught how to pass the driving test and then learn from experience be it good or bad and for most people they do not have a clue as to how a car functions.

 

[Inspector]

How is the sawstop safety function tested, anything delivering a safety function has to be proven just like an RCD so do you have to periodically present it with meat to see if it actually still works ?

When the saw has been turned on it goes through a self test and if there is anything wrong, blade gap to brake too far, access panel open, etc it flashes warning lights, the colour and frequency corresponding with the fault. If you want to check all is well as the day progresses, WITH SAW OFF you touch the bade and the green light at the switch changes to flashing red signifying that if the blade were spinning the brake would be fired. If it doesn't flash red there is something wrong with the system and it shouldn't be used until corrected. You can go online and read the lengthy manual if you want to know more about how it all works. I've had mine for over 15 years and it has never shown any faults or needed repairs.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

Unfortunately these days Saw Stop is probably the answer. They could have bought 10 of the Saw Stop equipped Festool saws for the cost of that one fine, the chap would still have his finger and no doubt more fingers would be saved in the future.

Only if you replace every saw everywhere, and also develop the technology for spindle and planer too.
Simpler and more cost effective to teach safe practices to start with - they are not difficult to understand. Just "never have your hands nearer than say 10" to an exposed powered cutting edge" for starters.

 

[Fergie 307]

Yup Deema this is why, as we all know, we have to complete 'box lifting' courses etc - I had to do one online 15 years ago - the main purpose was so the company could win a legal claim if we were ever injured - I can't actually think of anything that course told me that I didn't already know that was not common sense.
That said, correct training in specialities is crucial I think - this seems where the council failed.

I remember having a 4 foot step ladder go missing.
When it came to collect the replacement the guy in stores absolutely refused to let me take it until I could prove I had been on a "working at height" course.
I had, but that was about climbing towers with a safety harness etc, hardy applicable to a set of steps one would have thought.
All about denial of liability if you ask me.
Funniest example I have seen was in a motorcycle owners handbook, Triumph I think. After some instructions on how to clean the bike "do not attempt this procedure whilst riding the machine". Presumably aimed at the American market.
They will sue for anything, like the guy who successfully sued Winnebago because they hadn't informed him that cruise control was not an autopilot, and that having set it you couldn't then nip in the back for a coffee !