Council fined £20k for saw injury - Saw Stop would have prevented this

[Jacob]

....

It would seem that you learned with a push stick in your hand, ....

Well not really in the UK, it's a recent development.
The HSE recommendations are well behind the times, recommending only one push stick in certain circumstances, and showing an inadequate design.
I first read of the two push stick recommendation on this forum many years ago, and some of us have been flagging it up ever since and it seems to have caught on!
Quite pleasing as it almost certainly means some lost fingers and other cuts have been avoided.
It's just a question of catching up.

 

[Nick.]

Idiotic to feed wood into a table saw with bare hands even if it is a SawStop saw. Anybody who thinks it's either/or has a room temperature IQ, and probably missing digits.

So you've just labelled approx. 98% if not 99.8% of global table saw users I reckon.

Some know there's safer practices with push sticks due to the the info we have read up on, but the majority don't - that is why SawStop was developed.

 

[Spectric]

I first read of the two push stick recommendation on this forum many years ago

When you think about it then two push sticks makes sense, just like two chop sticks.

 

[Ed Weber]

When you think about it then two push sticks makes sense, just like two chop sticks.

Pushing with sticks does not give the best control over the stock IMO
I also spill rice when using chopsticks

 

[Jake]

So you've just labelled approx. 98% if not 99.8% of global table saw users I reckon.

Some know there's safer practices with push sticks due to the the info we have read up on, but the majority don't - that is why SawStop was developed.

That's really poor justification though because it will just encourage poor practice and then when Sawstops fail, which is inevitable, everything does, the situation is worse because of complacency.

Things like sawstop are sensible fail safes but the first line should be not sticking yourself in harm's way (and two push sticks is the real solution to that most of the time).

 

[Ed Weber]

That's really poor justification though because it will just encourage poor practice and then when Sawstops fail, which is inevitable, everything does, the situation is worse because of complacency.

Things like sawstop are sensible fail safes but the first line should be not sticking yourself in harm's way (and two push sticks is the real solution to that most of the time).

Using push sticks is a solution in some situations, it's not a one size fits all answer to tablesaw safety.
I agree that SawStop causes complacency with many who use them, though they don't typically admit or realize it.
I say do what ever is comfortable for you to keep your hands away from the blade, which I didn't think I would need to say but in the age of YouTube and SawStop, apparently I have to.

 

[Trafalgar]

So you've just labelled approx. 98% if not 99.8% of global table saw users I reckon.

Some know there's safer practices with push sticks due to the the info we have read up on, but the majority don't - that is why SawStop was developed.

A push-shoe with a feather board, table saw with a functioning riving knife and enough horsepower for the job. The SawStop breeds lousy practices. Maybe it saves you from a clean amputation on the tablesaw, only to see you mangle a hand completely on a shaper.

 

[Spectric]

The SawStop breeds lousy practices

That is an issue because like anything if you become to comfortable then you can become complacent and that is when accidents can happen. If you are a sawstop user and then one day you are working in another workshop and do not appreciate the dangers of this saw without sawstop then it might just take a few digits during a moment of complacency.

 

[John Brown]

That is an issue because like anything if you become to comfortable then you can become complacent and that is when accidents can happen. If you are a sawstop user and then one day you are working in another workshop and do not appreciate the dangers of this saw without sawstop then it might just take a few digits during a moment of complacency.

I can't see that, realistically. For you to become blasé about touching the blade you'd have to had destroyed multiple blades and cartridges, at great expense, because SawStop does nothing until you actually touch the blade.

 

[Jacob]

So you've just labelled approx. 98% if not 99.8% of global table saw users I reckon.

Some know there's safer practices with push sticks due to the the info we have read up on, but the majority don't - that is why SawStop was developed.

Exactly. What a pointless exercise - so much simpler to teach safe practices with push sticks!
And much cheaper. And usable on almost all/any machine including older saws, spindles, planers.

 

[Jacob]

That is an issue because like anything if you become to comfortable then you can become complacent and that is when accidents can happen. If you are a sawstop user and then one day you are working in another workshop and do not appreciate the dangers of this saw without sawstop then it might just take a few digits during a moment of complacency.

Well exactly. Saw stop is not transferable from machine to machine and there are millions out there. Push sticks are portable!

 

[Spectric]

I can't see that, realistically. For you to become blasé about touching the blade you'd have to had destroyed multiple blades and cartridges, at great expense, because SawStop does nothing until you actually touch the blade.

It is the fact that you know it is there, without it you know that it will just chop bits off if you let it so you keep your distance and avoid getting anywhere near it but with sawstop giving you that last line of defence then you might be tempted to work nearer the blade or take the odd chance with cutting say a narow strip.

 

[Agent_zed]

It is the fact that you know it is there, without it you know that it will just chop bits off if you let it so you keep your distance and avoid getting anywhere near it but with sawstop giving you that last line of defence then you might be tempted to work nearer the blade or take the odd chance with cutting say a narow strip.

I can see your point for some people, but at the moment I'd have thought that most people purchasing sawstop are more cautious users to begin with. This may change over time if it's harder to buy one without but for the most part if you are purposely spending more money to stay safer then I would doubt those people are cutting matchsticks with their fingers. Same as fire extinguishers - if I install smoke alarms, extinguishers and sprinklers in my workshop will it be more likely that I am someone who is overall more careful about fire risks or someone who think It'll be ok welding in woodshavings.

I'm likely to purchase one (or similar) in the future when my current one dies and I am pretty cautious when using my tablesaw, and this is unlikely to change with a sawstop table. It is also £60+ to replace the stop block so being careless will cost me time and money and (assuming it works) I will still get cut a little bit.

At the end of the day it makes no difference to anyone on here if other home users are using sawstop or not. If fact the more people not cutting off body parts the less money the government are spending on them so it benefits everyone.

If you are a company owner then maybe you have more of reason to like or dislike it as it will directly affect your business and/or training.

Even if they mandate sawstop from now on, there are so many saws out there without it I doubt most of us will have a problem sourcing one without for decades to come.

Even then if you have to buy one with it, turn it off if you want to.

 

[Steve_Scott]

Proper training and following good practices would have prevented the injury. A SawStop would have mitigated it to a minor cut if there had been a failure to follow the safety practices or some other distraction occurred leading to blade contact.

Pete

Agreed; proper training may reduce the likelihood of an incident occurring but it would not prevent a hand from coming into contact with a spinning blade.

 

[Jacob]

Agreed; proper training may reduce the likelihood of an incident occurring but it would not prevent a hand from coming into contact with a spinning blade.

Well it does in reality.
With good training, or with use and experience, you get very conscious of the risk and keep your hands well away. It becomes second nature like dealing with a hot fire. Push sticks instead of pokers. It becomes a reflex action to prevent a hand from coming into contact with a spinning blade, or a red hot fire. Or think of it like a wild animal in a cage, with big teeth.
Add to that a few guards, particularly the crown guard and the risk is vanishingly small.
Also helps to cast an eye over the horrible photos of the accidents which people post! Luckily not that many.
This applies to all the usual machines everywhere, including saws, spindles, planers, router tables, without machine modifications.