Choosing Chisels

[jimi43]

Just be careful not to overheat the edge...you would be better using a slow speed model or water-cooled one.

Or just use wet and dry!

Jim

 

[Jacob]

These are on offer from Axminster. They are cheap and ugly and the bevel edges are a bit chunky. But the set I got had very flat faces (just slightly concave over the whole length: perfect) and they take a good edge. These are ideal for a beginner (woodworker that is, not tool collector!)
Spend it on wood instead!

 

[JakeS]

I was worried about getting the hollow grind due to the fact that you sharpen on the outside of the circumference of the wheel.

Sorry to jump in with a different question, but this is something I've wondered for a while. (I don't have a grinding wheel myself, as of yet; it's been on my 'maybe' list for a long while.) Is the reason you sharpen on the outside of the rim of the wheel just because that's the convenient place to put the rest and the guard, or is there some other reason why it's not a good idea to sharpen on the side of the wheel? All the wheels I've seen have a large surface on the side as well, after all. Too easy to put a skew on the end by accident? Maybe something to do with wear patterns on the wheel itself?

 

[James C]

When I was trained on how to grind HSS I was told that you shouldn't grind on the side of the wheel because if you do it towards the front you could ruin its square edge at the front or even worse if you do it further back you can cut in on the wheel and weaken it. I've heard all sorts of grinder related horror stories of people pushing hard into the front and the wheel, weakened on both side, shatters flinging large chunks of wheel into the user and all over the shop.

 

[RogerP]

....... or is there some other reason why it's not a good idea to sharpen on the side of the wheel? All the wheels I've seen have a large surface on the side as well, after all.

... because most grinding wheels are not designed to take pressure on the side and may shatter ... with disastrous results.

 

[JakeS]

I've heard all sorts of grinder related horror stories of people pushing hard into the front and the wheel, weakened on both side, shatters flinging large chunks of wheel into the user and all over the shop.

That sounds like a pretty good reason!

 

[MickCheese]

Actually it's a fully fledged 415V grinding wheel with a coarse grit wheel and medium grit wheel. I was skeptical about getting it up and running for primary bevels as I was worried about getting the hollow grind due to the fact that you sharpen on the outside of the circumference of the wheel.

I've only used these to grind down HSS bar into Lathe cutters for turning MS and Ali, how much is the hollow grinding on a radius going to effect my chisels?

Can I suggest either getting a set of Jacob's Axminster chisels or some cheapies from eBay and using those to practice sharpening with. You may be surprised and find they are actually quite useable.

I would not want to attack a precious purchase with a grinding wheel as a first attempt.

Mick

 

[James C]

I'm not going to be putting precious purchases against the grinding wheel as I won't need to regrind the primary bevels. I will only be honing them.

The grinding wheel is for regrinding the primary bevels on some older chisels that need to be sorted out. Not to mention the multitude of chisels at school that I need to get reground and sharpened.

I have around 100 bevel edged chisels in a mixture of sizes most falling into 1, 3/4, 1/2 or 1/4" sizes. Plenty of opportunity to practice. They are all Stanleys, older versions of the ones in this picture

I also have a bunch of Mortice chisels (around 40 in varying sizes) some of which are quite old marples.

I'm not going to hone them though as kids are only using them for chopping and paring of B&Q crap wood for their joints and frames to get BTec Construction certificate.

 

[MickCheese]

I'm not going to be putting precious purchases against the grinding wheel as I won't need to regrind the primary bevels. I will only be honing them.

The grinding wheel is for regrinding the primary bevels on some older chisels that need to be sorted out. Not to mention the multitude of chisels at school that I need to get reground and sharpened.

I have around 100 bevel edged chisels in a mixture of sizes most falling into 1, 3/4, 1/2 or 1/4" sizes. Plenty of opportunity to practice. They are all Stanleys, older versions of the ones in this picture

I also have a bunch of Mortice chisels (around 40 in varying sizes) some of which are quite old marples.

I'm not going to hone them though as kids are only using them for chopping and paring of B&Q rubbish wood for their joints and frames to get BTec Construction certificate.

You need to look here:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/did-anyone-on-here-buy-the-stanley-chisels-on-ebay-t56666.html

Those old Stanley's are worth saving.

Mick

 

[awkwood]

I have just been reading a toolmail catalogue from the early 1980's
Stanley 5001 chisels were a top quality chisel at the time made from top quality forged alloy steel.
They cost £41.74 for a set of six compared to £28.60 for a set of top of the range footprint chisels
Compare this to other top quality tools of the time eg. a 12" nonpareil tenon saw £30.41 and a Elu mof 96 router at £98.57. It seems they were never cheap, but high quality craftsmans tools at the time.

 

[James C]

Once I have got them all looking better I'll post some picks of the whole set. They look similar but would appreciate finding out if they are something else as I have no idea of the age.

 

[Max Power]

Post me a set out James and I shall evaluate them for you :mrgreen:

 

[Jacob]

I have just been reading a toolmail catalogue from the early 1980's
Stanley 5001 chisels were a top quality chisel at the time made from top quality forged alloy steel.
They cost £41.74 for a set of six compared to £28.60 for a set of top of the range footprint chisels
Compare this to other top quality tools of the time eg. a 12" nonpareil tenon saw £30.41 and a Elu mof 96 router at £98.57. It seems they were never cheap, but high quality craftsmans tools at the time.

I bought some way back then, basically because they were out of stock of the blue handled ones. Both are good (I've still got them) but the 5001s are harder. But take longer to sharpen. 6 of one, half doz the other.

PS £41.74 for a set of six in 1980 or thereabouts is about £70 each now. They were the best then, and there is nothing to say that they aren't as good as LN, LV now.
PPS No that £70 seems unlikely. House prices have gone up more than 10x since 1980 but chisel prices probably haven't.

 

[andy king]

I bought some way back then, basically because they were out of stock of the blue handled ones. Both are good (I've still got them) but the 5001s are harder. But take longer to sharpen. 6 of one, half doz the other.

PS £41.74 for a set of six in 1980 or thereabouts is about £70 each now. They were the best then, and there is nothing to say that they aren't as good as LN, LV now.

So using that logic, the 'overpriced/overhyped' Lie Nielsens at around £48 each (along with other 'premium' chisels) seem to be a bit of a bargain! :lol: :lol: :lol:
How come buying premium back then is seemingly fine by you, but not for those who want to do the same today? :roll:
The same could be said for saws, and many other hand tools.
As I recall, I paid about £20 each for two American Disstons in 1977 for example, and that was from a tool shop that heavily discounted, so equal, if not way more expensive than premium saws available today.

Andy

 

[Jacob]

...
So using that logic, the overpriced/overhyped Lie Nielsens at around £48 each (along with other 'premium' chisels) seem to be a bit of a bargain! ..

What logic? There are plenty of good quality cheaper alternatives. LN weren't available in 1980. I bought a few 5001s because that's all they had in the shop. I wanted the cheaper ones.

 

[andy king]

LN weren't available in 1980. I bought a few 5001s because that's all they had in the shop. I wanted the cheaper ones.

Yes, but by that comment, you paid top dollar back then, equal to around £70 per chisel by your calculation, and now, 30+ years later you still rate them.
Whether you wanted cheaper or not, by owning the top end ones available at that time and still endorsing them now, you obviously realise that the better end of the market has value to those that want to pay for it, if not you would surely have sold them on at the first opportunity and bought the cheaper ones available at that time.
So why berate anyone who is essentially doing the same thing, buying a premium brand that they will likely still be using in 30 years time, be it saw, plane or chisel?
Of course LN etc wasn't available then, but for the trade, the most likely choices for the top end area would be the black handles Stanleys or Marples Splitproofs, or for the bench joiner, usually Marples boxwood handles as the highest priced and premium rated, followed by Marples 'Bluechip' the blue handles Stanleys or Marples ash handled versions as the next best thing.

 

[Harbo]

Jacob have you actually tried the cheapo Axminster chisels or is this another judgement based solely on price?
Speaking as somebody who has 5001's, 5002's and LN's, they are different as chalk and cheese - your Stanley's being the cheese!

Rod

 

[Jacob]

Jacob have you actually tried the cheapo Axminster chisels or is this another judgement based solely on price?
Speaking as somebody who has 5001's, 5002's and LN's, they are different as chalk and cheese - your Stanley's being the cheese!

Rod

Yes of course I've have tried them, I wouldn't stick my neck otherwise! I wanted bigger sized chisels (32, 38) for a one off project so I bought these. They were more expensive then - I should have waited for the sale!
They are very unattractive but perfectly functional.
Chisels are simple things.* They'd have to be really bad to be unusable.

PS *The tooly would-be-gurus put a lot of effort into trying to persuade us that many things are not simple, in fact difficult, or subtly technical in mysterious ways. You get them all burbling about Rockwell numbers or bevel angles, but basically it's all an attempt to blind us with science!

 

[andy king]

Jacob have you actually tried the cheapo Axminster chisels or is this another judgement based solely on price?
Speaking as somebody who has 5001's, 5002's and LN's, they are different as chalk and cheese - your Stanley's being the cheese!

Rod

Hi Rod,

I used them about 3 years back and they are fine as chisels go, hard enough steel to hold an edge, but pretty crude - they look more like a firmer chisel that has had a fight with a grinder rather than a true bevel edged one with the fine lands that is associated with the better ones.
There's the rub, definitely.
The finish on the blades is nothing spectacular, the handles a bit flaky with raised seams on the moulding (at least on the set i tested) but that side of things could be filed back.
For a set of 'bashers' they are fine, but as you of course know and appreciate, premium chisels are way better in the finish on the steel itself, the overall quality, and so forth, and that means more work to be done at the manufacturing process, which relates to the price.
I've looked at many a chisel where i've sometimes struck lucky and the back is flat, while others take an age to remove a lump. The premium models from LN etc now flattened at source, so minimal work to get them up and running, but its all part of the price you pay.
It's not unique, Stanley were doing it with their black handled 5001's all those years back! :lol:

cheers,
Andy

 

[Jacob]

I'd agree with that. Ax chisels perfectly OK for beginners (or anybody for that matter). The posh ones are just "nicer" i.e. it's largely cosmetic.
NB for most users the uber flat face is not particularly important (depends what you are doing) but the Axi's are OK on that front anyway.