Chisel selection.

[bugbear]

Yes if it is stopped both ends, no if open at one end at least. Chisel faster and doesn't need adjusting. You'd already have the depth set by the saw cuts and gauge marks at each end..

How are you controlling the depth of the saw cuts?

BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

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[bugbear]

Er, by looking at them whilst doing them. Works for me
And you have the gauge marks of course.

OK; sounds a bit rough and ready for my tastes.

The old textbook approach for open or semi-open dados is to do waste removal with a chisel, and a finishing pass with some-sort-of-router (OWT or #71)

In this way, you get the speed benefit of the chisel, but the accuracy and finish of the more refined tool. You can also leave the router at one depth setting, gaining speed and consistency.

A similar approach is recommended for rabbets - hacked out with a saw and chisel, finished with a shoulder plane.

BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

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[bugbear]

...must mean simply that the writer didn't own a rebate plane and was doing it a hard way instead.

I think C Hayward had a wide range of tools


BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

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[Alf]

I think C Hayward had a wide range of tools

He also had a wide ranging brief including writing for readers with a minimal tool kit...

Cheers, Alf

 

[David C]

I knew this was going to get silly........

I defy any one to produce an accurate dado groove or housing across a wide cabinet side with a chisel.

The sawcuts are not likely to define a precise depth either.

I feel that these ridiculous dissagreements about technique are rooted in practical requirements for different trades.

I have no intention of lecturing Jacob in the art of Windowmaking and Joinery at which I am sure he is very good and I am not!

David Charlesworth

 

[Anonymous]

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[MikeW]

I knew this was going to get silly........

I defy any one to produce an accurate dado groove or housing across a wide cabinet side with a chisel.

The sawcuts are not likely to define a precise depth either.

I feel that these ridiculous dissagreements about technique are rooted in practical requirements for different trades.

I have no intention of lecturing Jacob in the art of Windowmaking and Joinery at which I am sure he is very good and I am not!

David Charlesworth

You may have read into this thread something which I do not see, DC. I see no ridiculous dissagreements, just an exchange of differing methods. Even if the end results would not [in my case] reach your standards for fine furniture if I created a dado start to finish using a backsaw and a paring chisel, it doesn't make a simple saw and chisel a ridiculous or silly discussion.

I think for myself the issue is the difference between defining a dado and finishing off a dado. I probably didn't make myself clear when I took your previous quote as a take-off for my reply.

While I have made dadoes start to finish in the manner described, saw and paring chisel, I do not do so in general. Most especially for finer furniture. But wasting a dado after defining its shoulders has been done this way for a long time, including finishing them off. It is by no means "the" way or only way, but I have done it. And if one is using woods such as the Bubinga and Jatoba I love to use, well, it would be a difficult task.

btw, the saws I have used to cut dado shoulders have depth stops to them. Pretty difficult to not cut to the depth desired.

If someone wanted to learn to make dadoes by hand, what methods would you teach them and what tools would you suggest them to use?

For stopped dadoes, I would suggest a brace with appropriate bit, a stairsaw or backsaw with depth stops, a chisel to quickly waste material and a router plane. For through dadoes, I would always suggest a dado plane of appropriate width. Should that not be a possibility, I would suggest the same tools as for the stopped dado, sans brace/bit.

If the person wanted to use just a saw and a chisel, that I would teach them as well. I think the person would need to be able to accept its limitations, but they could learn to do so with just those two simple tools.

Take care, Mike

 

[David C]

For a wide housing, the bottom could be finished accurately with;

hand router, hags tooth router, electric router as has been suggested several times before in this thread, by more than one person.

It is also possible to improvise a hand router with a ground concrete nail in a block of wood.

Halving and narrower joints are perfectly well done with chisel, marking gauge and saw.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Joel Moskowitz]

This thread has become really interesting because it shows how hand work has been influenced by the introduction of machines.
The important thing about dados is accurate width to smoothly fit whatever insert (shelf, ledge, runner, etc) is going into the dado and adaquate deprh where they their stength from. As long as no part of the dado is too shallow - so that the insert cannot seat properly, the only places where depth is really important is the front and the back so that there is no gap and the carcase can be squared. In fact as we all know tpyically the insert is only fastened in the front to keep visual alighnment and the back is left loose in some way to move with the weather.
If the carcass moves the wrong way it can actually force the insert out so a slight added depth in the middle of the dados length may not be a bad thing - there is no glue strength or attachments there anyway.

So the question is - why do we care that the dado is perfectly level from front to back?

I would argue this is a case where by machine it's the easiest way to do it. and with a modern router plane - which is easily set and adjusted - it's also faster to nibble away getting deeper and deeper than it is to bash away with a chisel - unless you understand where the accuracy is needed. Certainly some hand skill is needed but it's not that hard.

What has happened, and this is what I find so interesting, is that as modern people are rediscovering hand work the standard of work is one of trying to mimic the machine operations not simply trying to work efficently by hand. We know from pre-industrial examples that work was done to fit. it was done exceedingly rapidly even by todays standards. and if something wasn't seen or not needed for structural reasons labor wasn't expended on it.

 

[bugbear]

...

Are you channeling the spirit of Adam Cherubini? :-k

BugBear

 

[MikeW]

Joel said what I was trying to say concerning doing the far side and then the opposite side to depth much better than I did.

Point was as he wrote, the two "show" ends are what must be precise, as well as the width.

Take care, Mike

 

[Joel Moskowitz]

...

Are you channeling the spirit of Adam Cherubini? :-k

BugBear

No - but who knows, Adam may be channelling me.

Actually what interests me about woodworking history is industrial practice and when you look at old production rates it is awesome how fast they worked - faster than a lot of modern shops doing period work.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

Has anybody used the Lie-Nielsen range of Long handled Bevel edge chisels - it says they can be used for paring.

Thanks!!

Philly has some - maybe a pm to him if he misses the thread?

 

[stairman]

For stopped dadoes, I would suggest a brace with appropriate bit, a stairsaw or backsaw with depth stops, a chisel to quickly waste material and a router plane. For through dadoes, I would always suggest a dado plane of appropriate width. Should that not be a possibility, I would suggest the same tools as for the stopped dado, sans brace/bit.

If the person wanted to use just a saw and a chisel, that I would teach them as well. I think the person would need to be able to accept its limitations, but they could learn to do so with just those two simple tools.

Take care, Mike