Wanted Chair-making books & tools

[jb94]

Hi,
I’m after some books on chair making, something suitable for someone new to making a Windsor chair and the following tools

Adze or scorp
Drawknife
Reamer (either entire tool or just blade)

Cheers

 

[RobNichols]

I don't have physical things to offer, but I do have some lessons from my own attempts at chairmaking:

• I'd go for a scorp over an adze. However, all scorps (or inshaves) are not equal. The cheap ones are useless. I'd highly recommend the Ray Iles scorp and that shouldn't break the bank. It's worked a treat for me. I got mine from Woodsmith (seem to be out of stock at the moment) but other outlets such as Classic Hand Tools also sell them. Adze have their uses but I think for chair making a scorp is more useful.
• There are a lot of secondhand drawknives about. I'd choose one of those over the cheap Chinese imports. TBH I think second hand drawknives are cheap enough to get a couple and see how you get on with them. The best drawknife I've used is a Gränsfors Bruk Swedish Drawknife which I used on a green woodworking course. Lovely tool, but they are not cheap and TBH they are large - so I'd probably want a smaller more standard drawknife as well.
• As for the reamer - to be honest I wouldn't be in a hurry to get one if I was starting over. I'd start with cylindrical tenons. That will get you a long way. Having said that the Veritas Large Tapered Reamer isn't expensive and works well - in both an electric drill and hand brace.

Other tools to consider:

• Spokeshave - lots of options. You can do an awful lot with a spokeshave. I'd get a flat sole one to start. The Stanley 151 style is a good start and they are easy to get cheap both new and secondhand. Personally I like the Luban/Quangshend ones a lot as a nice affordable alternative.
• Travisher - Often described as essential for chairmaking (for example). Personally, I've struggled to find a cheap one that works. At the moment I'm not making chairs, but when I go back to it I think I'm just going to have to stump up and get a good one. They don't seem to appear often secondhand.

As for books - I'd highly recommend Chris Swartz Stick Chair book as a good starting point. It is an easy read and very informative.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I see you are in Rotherham. Steve Langton is a chairmaker based in Gringley on the Hill who makes and sells travishers. (He also does courses)

 

[johnnyb]

None of the items you've listed are really essential imho. There more for people who chose the green wood trad tools way. I'd consider how you will bend the bows and how your gonna drill the holes make thin dowels and form the tenons.
At this point I'd suggest jack Hills books and ashem tools. But ashem don't exist anymore. Alternatives are available though I believe. Drew langsner made a few good books about chairmaking. Chris schwarz is mostly a journo hipster and his books are mostly poor.(imho) I know Americans like him but the anarchists design book was mainly bunkum. I'd suggest make some things that have bits of Windsor skills
A stool, something steam bent, a stool with hollowed seat. A child's chair, then ponder how you'll piece it all together. Tapered tenons are poor as well. Tight fitting blind tenons are super and easy to make. Stretchers that actually stretch are important as well. English Windsors are much more attractive than American Windsor imho. American Windsors are really quite flouncy and dressy as if they became upper middle class on the journey across the pond. The seat material (white pine) leads to ugly thick seats. English windsors are firmly rooted in wheelwrighting both in materials and look.

 

[johnnyb]

Tom thackeray s travishers are good but unhardened gauge plate. Of course this keeps the radius predictable(during hardening these would warp) but there not the best.
The dowels he makes using rounders. A course can be a good way of starting because there's lots of specialist stuff needed but your quickly led through stuff that might be tricky when your home. Better to come at it with your own take and equipment.

 

[johnnyb]

Even if your chairs aren't as great you'll be well set to continue making more than one.

 

[jb94]

Thanks for the advice all, I always appreciate the wealth of experience from this forum!

Definitely not going to be making the chair anytime soon, just looking for some bedtime reading and a starting point to practice the techniques (like getting used to the draw knife and scorp), and eventually I’ll make a full Windsor one day. We’ve just had a baby so my time in the shop is a bit limited but it would give me a project to work towards.

I’ve made this stool in the past, quite basic just a flat disc with the angled tenon drilled in and bracing (seems to be a very strong design as the dog pushed it down the stairs this morning and it survived intact). Baby steps (excuse the pun) would be to make another with a scooped seat and a small backrest.

I’ve got a spokeshave (a wonderful vintage record one with a flat sole), and Ive made a tenon maker out of a broken hand plane which could help with making the dowel for backrest

I’ll give the books a go that you’ve all recommended and keep an eye on eBay.

For drawknives are straight or angled handles easier to use for a beginner?

 

[RobNichols]

IMO @jb94 if you can make a stool of that quality you already have most of the skills needed to make most chairs. And I love that tenon cutter!!

My main advice with drawknives remains don't get a new chinese knock off one in the hope of saving money - they are a waste of time.

I am not an expert. I have three (one of which is a of the above described chinese job - I really should throw it away as its scrap metal) and used a few on a green woodworking course. I struck lucky on the second one I got which I picked up at Stroud food market! It cuts beautifully and is a pleasure to use. I also have a small old one that is nice to use for finer work.

I'd suggest getting a straight(ish) bladed drawknife to start with. The more strongly curved ones tend to be coopers tools and are a little more specialised.

There are subtles in the handle angles. Some people like a little offset (canted down or up) which tends to promote either bevel up or bevel down cutting. My main two both drawknives have handles that are at 90 degrees to the blade, but roughly in line with it. I like that, as they feel equally comfortable cutting bevel up or bevel down - as I find that there are often cuts where one orientation works better than the other.

I often find if a cut isn't going well it is worth flipping the drawknife over to change from bevel up to down, or vice versa, as that often fixes the problem. Unfortunately I am not experienced enough to predict when that will occur. My main drawknife tends to be more controllable bevel down - so that is where I usually start. My small drawknife seems to work a little better bevel up. So I think it can very well depend on the drawknife and the sort of cuts you are making.

There are a lot of options. For example there look to be some nice ones on ebay at the moment. Just avoid the "new" ones!!. But to be honest new Ray Iles ones aren't that much more expensive and if they are as good as other Ray Iles tools I've brought, should be a safe bet for a first drawknife.

Another thing to consider with drawknives is that they aren't the easiest things to sharpen. There is the Benchcrafted Drawsharp but that'll cost twice what I've paid for my drawknives, and I don't think you need it (I haven't got one nor tried one), but otherwise this isn't a blade your going to be able to put in a jig. I find holding my diamond plates in my hand and stroking them along the blade does a reasonable job - but mastering sharpening my drawknives is something I'm still working on.

I bought my scorp from Woodsmith and they offer an option where they will hone the tool ready for use. I found that useful as it gave me a good starting point in what I should be aiming for when sharpening/honing that tool.

 

[decas]

Hello jb94. I have some chair making books I no longer need and intend to sell. I sent you a pm, have you received it?
Cheers
Dave

 

[jb94]

Hello jb94. I have some chair making books I no longer need and intend to sell. I sent you a pm, have you received it?
Cheers
Dave

Hi, just replied now sorry for the delay!

 

[jb94]

IMO @jb94 if you can make a stool of that quality you already have most of the skills needed to make most chairs. And I love that tenon cutter!!

My main advice with drawknives remains don't get a new chinese knock off one in the hope of saving money - they are a waste of time.

I am not an expert. I have three (one of which is a of the above described chinese job - I really should throw it away as its scrap metal) and used a few on a green woodworking course. I struck lucky on the second one I got which I picked up at Stroud food market! It cuts beautifully and is a pleasure to use. I also have a small old one that is nice to use for finer work.

I'd suggest getting a straight(ish) bladed drawknife to start with. The more strongly curved ones tend to be coopers tools and are a little more specialised.

There are subtles in the handle angles. Some people like a little offset (canted down or up) which tends to promote either bevel up or bevel down cutting. My main two both drawknives have handles that are at 90 degrees to the blade, but roughly in line with it. I like that, as they feel equally comfortable cutting bevel up or bevel down - as I find that there are often cuts where one orientation works better than the other.

I often find if a cut isn't going well it is worth flipping the drawknife over to change from bevel up to down, or vice versa, as that often fixes the problem. Unfortunately I am not experienced enough to predict when that will occur. My main drawknife tends to be more controllable bevel down - so that is where I usually start. My small drawknife seems to work a little better bevel up. So I think it can very well depend on the drawknife and the sort of cuts you are making.

There are a lot of options. For example there look to be some nice ones on ebay at the moment. Just avoid the "new" ones!!. But to be honest new Ray Iles ones aren't that much more expensive and if they are as good as other Ray Iles tools I've brought, should be a safe bet for a first drawknife.

Another thing to consider with drawknives is that they aren't the easiest things to sharpen. There is the Benchcrafted Drawsharp but that'll cost twice what I've paid for my drawknives, and I don't think you need it (I haven't got one nor tried one), but otherwise this isn't a blade your going to be able to put in a jig. I find holding my diamond plates in my hand and stroking them along the blade does a reasonable job - but mastering sharpening my drawknives is something I'm still working on.

I bought my scorp from Woodsmith and they offer an option where they will hone the tool ready for use. I found that useful as it gave me a good starting point in what I should be aiming for when sharpening/honing that tool.

Thanks for the advice!
I’m going to the Harrogate show so will try and pick up a scorp if there is one from classichandtools stall etc (hoping for show prices )

EBay seems a bit hit and miss, some jokers putting silly money on rusted up bits of rubbish with chunks missing without handles just because it has ‘Sheffield’ stamped on it!

 

[jb94]

Thought I’d update this thread after having a chat with Peter wood at the Harrogate show.

He recommended against adze or scorp, feeling that they’re very difficult to master for a beginner and pointed me in the direction of a large scooped gouge to rough out.

Still need a tool to provide the final finish which would probably take the form of a spokeshave (round bottomed or convex) or an angle grinder with a carving attachment / varying grits of sanding disc.

Shame the spokeshaves at the Harrogate show were so expensive!

 

[Yorkieguy]

I attended a one week course with the late Tom Thackray in 1999 (a 60th Birthday present).

I'd no idea what tools would be used and how holes were drilled at the correct angle, and most were very basic, and home-made by Tom. Such a skilled guy and a wonderful tutor/mentor. I was truly chucked to come home on the Friday afternoon with my Windsor chair, which everyone who attended his course is guaranteed to do.

At the time, I had no prior experience of woodturning or any of the skills involved in chair making. Clever the way that the back spindles were made with a home-made hinged rounder, with the square spindle held in a jam chuck in the headstock, and the other end rotating freely which by had, you tapered the spindle with the rounder, and at various points slid a small block with varying hole sizes to check if the spindle was sufficiently tapered at each point.

Perhaps what surprised me the most was the steam box used to enable the arms, back and crinoline to be bent.

The steam generator consisted of an old copper hot water cylinder laid on its side, with an oblong hole slashed it it with an axe, and flaps bent up up to form an aperture. Above that was a wooden box about 6 ft long with sides about six inches. This had an aperture which matched the oblong hole in the cylinder and sat on top of it. At one end, the box was blacked off, at the other end was a wooden flap, hinged at the top with a piece of carpet

The cylinder had an immersion heater with the thermostat shorted out. A watering can full of water was poured into the cylinder, the box put it place above the steam aperture, and lengths of square ash spindles placed into the box. The box was brought up to boiling point, and carried on boiling for maybe an hour, creating copious amounts of steam. Then each spindle was take out and bent around a former made from old worktop clamped in place and left overnight. Next morning, a spokeshave and drawknife were used to shape the bows.

At the time, Tom still had pieces of figured elm large enough to make the seat, which was shaped with one of Tom's travishers.

Some pics attached.

When friends see it, they bestow me with 'delusions of adequacy' and think I'm rather more skilled than I am!

"Use what talents you possess - the woods would be very silent if the only birds that sang were those that sang the best"

(Henry Van ****).

Hope that's of interest.

David.

 

[Tweedy]

I have a number of drawknives here, if you have need of one still, let me know.

For hollowing out, i made this device:

Not sure what I'd call it, but it's a hybrid coach plane/travisher.

It works quite nicely, i have paired it with an expedient miniature adze using a gouge as the blade. Less is more with seat shaping in my opinion so you don't need to shift vast amounts of material.

 

[jb94]

I have a number of drawknives here, if you have need of one still, let me know.

For hollowing out, i made this device:
View attachment 193423
Not sure what I'd call it, but it's a hybrid coach plane/travisher.

View attachment 193425


It works quite nicely, i have paired it with an expedient miniature adze using a gouge as the blade. Less is more with seat shaping in my opinion so you don't need to shift vast amounts of material.

Thanks, I might see how I get on with the spokeshave for the outside curves but I’ll let you know if I’m in need of the drawknife.

I’m interested in that mini travisher you’ve made, I take it it’s got a curved sole and curved profile on the blade?
What did you use for the blade is this an old plane iron?

 

[Tweedy]

No problem! I use the drawknife for the vast majority of my working, just using the spokeshave for last little bits of tidying myself, but with an open mouth it would probably do 99% of jobs.

It is indeed curved, I enhanced the curve after I took these pics and used it for a bit. It's a plane iron from a small block plane I had spare.

 

[jb94]

No problem! I use the drawknife for the vast majority of my working, just using the spokeshave for last little bits of tidying myself, but with an open mouth it would probably do 99% of jobs.

It is indeed curved, I enhanced the curve after I took these pics and used it for a bit. It's a plane iron from a small block plane I had spare.

Brill, I’ll have a go at making something I’m sure I’ve got some old chisels that could be used