British Woodworking - Issue No.5

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Smudger,

GMC's 'New Woodworking Plans and Projects' seems okay-ish. The guy who is writing about basic techniques though, seems to assume a bit too much; mainly that we all want and can afford the top end tools from the get-go. But in the copy I read there is a good range of projects, for most abilities

Hope this helps.
John
 
Well I enjoyed reading this months BWW. I find it informative and it caters very well for my current level of experience.

Sounds to me that as Lataxe is such a good woodworker, that the projects featured are below him and his english is so brilliant he should be contributing to the magazine, with an article so advanced it makes all us mear mortals heads spin. Of course the syntax, language and grammar would be faultless in every way too. (by the way i'm sure mine is not but i don't particularly care!)

I think this phrase will cover my feelings

If you don't like it don't b****y buy it.
 
It's interesting to see that Lataxe has high praise for FWW. I reckon that once great mag has become very ordinary and it no longer represents a benchmark to aspire to. I think that honour now rests with Pop Wood.
 
****,

Apologies if my vigorous discussion style is a touch offensive - it isn't meant to be; but a discussion wherein everyone agrees with each other and only says nice things isn't really a discussion, is it?

If you can want and expect a magazine to cater to your particular WW ambitions why can't I express the same wish, even if my ideal content is rather different from yours? You want to make simple things in a weekend. I prefer something a lot more challenging.

I don't say that's a better ambition; but I do say that your kind of WW is already catered to by any number of magazines whereas I have to buy Fine Woodworking to get my fix. I would prefer to have a British equivalent, with a lot more of the British cabinet making tradition and writers like Robert Ingham, David Charlesworth and David Savage allowed full rein.

There is, alas, no such magazine. F&CM comes the closest but is also full of pretend tool tests (often of the £8,000 monster machine tools variety that would crush the floor of my shed as well as my bank balance) and far too much sculpti-furniture made of burr elm for people with £10,000 to spend on a "statement". Every now and then there is a bit of light from Mr Charlesworth or someone else of his calibre, with useful information to impart in a clear and concise manner.

Perhaps by now you are feeling my frustration at the lack of a British WW magazine for little moi. :) Perhaps I am just an awkward little sod?

My shed, incidentally, is 10 foot X 17 foot, recently expanded from one that was identical in size to yours. It isn't the shed that dictates the furniture made in it so much as the woodworker's ambition and intent.

As to that writing style; well, I was admittedly harsh - the stuff can be read. Perhaps I'm allowing my frustration at the bland content to make me hyper-critical. Nevertheless, for a model of what I see as the ideal WW article style, read Fine Woodworking. The pictures tell a story and aren't just dressing. The words are frugal, to-the-point and unambiguous, without imposing the personality of the writer. The subject matter ranges from first principles to fantastique! Compare this to the "I did this then I did that" plodding of most British magazine articles.
 
Havent read BWW, but if the projects in there are " cut it squarish, splosh on the glue and whack a few nails in.." then its about my level of skill.
the writing, if it contains words of more than one syllable, then it had better have lots of pictures :lol: :lol:


best get on Nick, and secure a copy or two, methinks...
 
Lataxe, if you're looking for something more challenging, you should try and get hold of issue 4, featuring Bill Newton's Tilt-Top Table.

I agree with what you said regarding the aspirations of the woodworker and, when you see the size of Bill's shed and all he's got crammed inside, you'll have a perfect example of this.

It's worth mentioning that this magazine hasn't been going for more than a few months and is rapidly with each new arrival. I, for one, thinks it's above both The Woodworker and Good Woodworking but, as it is directed towards the Hobbyist, perhaps it cannot be compared to F&C and their high-horses... :?

You could always get in touch with Nick and give him some of your feedback, I'm sure he'd appreciate your thoughts all the same, as any magazine editor should do. :)
 
Lataxe,

It might be nice for you to at least introduce yourself, before you start belittling and insulting our members. (Yes, Steve Maskery and Nick Gibbs are members here as well.)
 
Hi Lataxe,

You should read my fiction! You would really have something to get your teeth into. You know what they say about criticism.. If it doesn't cut, it isn't sharp enough! Like a blunt chisel!

Don't worry, bad grammar annoys me too, but if the writing conveys the message, I'm happy enough!

Cheers and happy woodworking
John
 
Benchwayze":3k4byak7 said:
Smudger,

GMC's 'New Woodworking Plans and Projects' seems okay-ish. The guy who is writing about basic techniques though, seems to assume a bit too much; mainly that we all want and can afford the top end tools from the get-go. But in the copy I read there is a good range of projects, for most abilities

Hope this helps.
John

Sorry, John, I don't get the GMC bit.

(There's a 'doh' coming, I can feel it...)
 
Guild of Master Craftsmen Smudger.
They do the 'High-horse' magazine too. Would you believe I was a member? That was when you had to pay for the Certificate. I don't recall anyone ever asking me st submit work either.

That aside, the 'New Woodworking' mag does have a good sprinkling of projects.

I also like Plansnow.com.
Google it. They are not free plans, but not expensive either. They are interesting and imaginative if you want garden furniture specially.

Regards
John
:D
 
Slim (Simon)

"Belittling and insulting our members...."

I'm sorry if you see it this way - I'm criticising a magazine's content and style, not the people involved. Perhaps you identify the product with the people? Perhaps the moderator does too? If so, I will desist .... and go elsewhere. (I reread the forum rules and get a sense that "be nice children" is the order of the day).

Just to be clear, I don't disrespect the editor or staff of British Woodworking, I merely express my disappointment that their magazine does not meet my needs and give my reasons why. I disrespect their product (in part) if you like because it reads to me like same-old same-old. I'm sure they themselves are all fine chaps and (let's face it) both better article writers and probably better woodworkers than me, one way or another. Still, perhaps they are interested in why I don't take out a subscription, despite the abranet. (Perhaps not).

In any case, I made my rather blunt point so I should desist anyway. It's back to Knots for me, I think, where one may be forthright without so many harrumphs going off. One does not wish to be a nettle in the nice flower garden. :)

Lataxe, an insensitive brute.
 
My 2 Euros worth on this one. Previous comments have referred to the nature of the supposedly 'high-endy' machinery tests in F&C. This month's that just dropped onto the mat this morning looks at the Jet 260 planer (£850) biscuit jointers and the Domino, the Record TS315 table saw (£1750) and a couple of Veritas hand tools. Only the TS could be said to be pushing the boat out for the hobbyist, the rest are within the price range of the of the amateur. What needs to be understood I think is that the mags cater for two different sections of the market. F&C has always been pitched at the professional end of the spectrum and the machinery reviews reflect that position as well as the other general content of the mag. BW tho' is clearly pointed at the hobbyist woodworker and in my view the style and content reflect the market sector that Nick is aiming at, with all credit going to him for getting some stuff from heavyweights like Robert Ingham and David Savage.
That said, F&C is still streets ahead of anything else (and I'm the first to admit that it's not perfect) but BW comes in a very creditable second and is far, far better than the normal run of the mill, utter dross that can be found on the shelves in WHS.
I've had a number of very informative conversations with Nick with a view to making a contribution to the mag. The sort of style that he's looking for is one where an interesting tale or story can be told...something that will make the reader smile and want to read on and buy the next edition and I think that Steve M certainly falls into that bracket.
Regarding the folding table in the previous issue. I showed a the front cover to my daughter and I asked her what she thought of it. She said immediately that the legs were too small and the centre column was too thick. Have a look at the pics objectively and you'll see that she's bang on, there is certainly no grace or elegance to it and I think it just looks clumpy and very amateurish. IMO to have that table as the main project piece in the mag was an error of judgement on Nick's part and I mentioned it to him in an email...it was beautifully made but the design was appalling.
So is BW worth it...I think so and will be contacting Nick later to discuss projects - Rob
 
****,

Why cannot some people deal with the hargy bargy of real life?

But seriously, does everyone have to agree with you to be acceptable? It is possible to have even a heated discussion without your ego bursting or your feelings being hurt, you know Don't take everything so personally man. It's just a discussion, not a fist fight.

But I suspect you have the prevalent attitude here and I don't want to make a nuisance of myself. So it must be tarra. My loss, I know.

Lataxe
 
I've sat here all day wondering how I can best respond to this. Clearly any piece is not going to be to everyone's taste, and also everyone has a right to air an opinion. I think the problems I have with this are as follows:

1. Where, exactly, is the poor English? The question has been asked earlier in the thread, and yet no substantiation has been offered. I may be an average home woody, but I do consider myself to be an above-average writer. I do know the difference between "sheer" and "shear", "complimentary and "complementary", and "practise" and "practice". And yes, I do know that you don't start a sentence with "and", and I know what an Oxford comma is., and when to not split an infinitive (sic). So the only slips in English I'm like to be caught out on are ones made on here at midnight when I'm not wearing my contact lenses and can't see what I'm typing.

2. I think few people, here or anywhere else, would enjoy hearing their work described as "dross". Just what is wrong with it? OK, I got the dovetails on the bottom drawer the wrong way round, but I know that, haven't tried to hide it and pointed it out so that others don't make the same mistake. In other respects the design fulfills its functional requirements (to store books and paperwork), the joinery is sound, the mitres are tight and the finish is even. It's not an exhibition piece, but it is a quiet vernacular piece of domestic furniture which does its job, doesn't offend and was affordable. How come that makes it "dross"? I'm always willing to learn and improve, both at making and writing, but it seems that constructive criticism of either is absent here, despite the invitation to clarify.

3 There is one very easy way for you to get the magazine you want. Write it. As far as I know, all magazines rely on external, freelance, contributors for the majority of their material. Those of us who write do so largely because we love what we do. Woody journalism is not a way to get rich quick, or even get rich slowly for that matter. Rates have not gone up in a decade. That's not to knock Nick, he treats me very fairly, but I was earning pretty much the same rate for my first article in GW Jan 1997. So we don't do it for the money. So if you want high-quality journalism, spend your time writing, drawing and photographing, then offer it to the mags, and if you can persuade them that you are good enough, it might get published. I'm serious, editors are always on the lookout for good material, perhaps because it is so rare, and I do know that Nick wants to produce the best. What other reason could he have for funding this venture himself and working 7 days a week until the early hours (I have many emails from him sent when I was pushing out the zeds)?

If you are going to be critical, please, at least, make that criticism constructive. Otherwise, those of us who sweat blood to write feel as if we are wasting our time. Fortunately I have enough positive feedback to realize that not everyone feels as disappointed as Mr Lataxe.

OK, I'm off now to slash my wrists.
Steve
 
Lataxe, (You haven't given us your first name by the way.)

I believe a 'heated discussion' is, in fact, a debate or an argument.

A discussion is just that, a means of talking things through without rancour, to arrive at a solution to some problem. At the moment I don't see any solution to this one. I see plenty of rancour though, when all we are discussing is the old adage that, 'One man's meat is another's poison.'

Regards
John :)
 
Steve - I make the assumption that your ref to 'dross' in my post (if it is my post you're referring to) is in some way a criticism of you and your work....it is not. It's my personal viewpoint on many of the mags that I see on the shelves in WHS which in no way cater for the sort of stuff that interests me. Your piece in BW on the storage unit for your wife I found to be entertaining and informative, particularly the 'warts and all' approach as everyone makes the odd ****-up from time to time and I'm no exception as a quick trawl thru' the Blog will confirm. I look forward to the next issue to see how the project is finished - Rob
 
Rob,

I'm sure Steve was refering to Lataxe's unjustified comments in an earlier post.
 
I've not seen a copy of BW yet but until recently suscribed to F&C.

woodbloke":3mbd1mmf said:
F&C has always been pitched at the professional end of the spectrum and the machinery reviews reflect that position as well as the other general content of the mag.

My gripe with F&C was that it is not geared enough towards the professional. It is published by the Guild of Master Craftsmen so presumably it's primary target market is members of that organisation - ie professionals.

However, far too much of the content IMHO is pitched at the hobby woodworker. For instance, detailed plans of a project are of little interest to a professional cabinetmaker. Our daily work entails taking a sketch of a design or a photo from a magazine and working out how to make it. What we need from the 'projects' section of a magazine is good design ideas and tips towards innovative construction processes - not complete plans!

I also get a bit fed up with the choice of machines and tools which are reviewed. I understand the financial imperative and that commercial pressures influence this choice, but it is annoying to see yet another road test of an identical-looking combination machine every month, or a Chiwanese cloned planer-thicknesser.

The truth is that most professional woodworkers have a workshop full of 40 year old+ lumps of cast iron! A Jet planer thicknesser is just not of any interest to a pro guy; he would prefer a nice old Whitehead or Wadkin for half the price and which is going to do a better job for ten times as long! So why no articles on old iron? I think I know the answer. :lol:

There are also many aspects of the cabinetmaker's business that could be covered by a magazine truly catering for members of the trade, such as marketing, costing, dealing with difficult clients,etc etc. Unfortunately, F&C isn't that magazine.

Incidentally, welcome to the forum, Lataxe.

I don't find you rude or abrasive, just a blunt northerner. These southern nancy-boys can be a bit precious! :lol:
 
Dan Tovey":ws76rbsj said:
I don't find you rude or abrasive, just a blunt northerner. These southern nancy-boys can be a bit precious! :lol:

<he>Northener I am, say what I bloody like and like what I bloody say. </he>
 
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