Brace & Ledged Door - or Panelled Door.

[Dibs-h]

For my 'shop - it's a bit chicken and egg scenario with regards to the door & windows. So I'm boarding up the wiondows with ply for the moment as access isn't required - but the door is something else, can't really board it as I need to go in & out and start moving some stuff into it.

Now the "final" door - that will be done sometime later, but I still need a door. So whilst not quite in the bodge it & leg it league - it has to be cheap, functional and secure.

Here's the plan - 1300 x 2100 wide opeing,

Door frame from 2x1 (softwood)- or bought in if someone does it that size & cheap enough.

Door - had an idea about using Ply on both sides with a 2"x1" or 1"x1" core - but I think that's doo much hassle. So settled (unless someone has a better idea) on a braced and ledged door out of 8"x2" (or 6"x2") softwood. Any suggestions\advice on what not to do, or what to do for that matter.

It will be out of softwood - I'm not wanting to spend a fortune on it, only to rip it out next summer.

 

[Mattty]

4 pieces of cheap studding 1 top and bottom, 2 stiles. Screw though top and bottom into stiles. Fix in oaces with a few screws and plugs.

For the door i would personally just hinge a sheet of ply, and fit a hasp and staple for a padlock if required- all pretty standard building site stuff, and quite cheap.

 

[Benchwayze]

Dibs,

Consider hanging the door so it opens inwards.
From experience, 95% of shed and garage breakings I attended, were accessed through an outward opening door. So easy to jemmy, whatever locks you use.

Inward opening doors with double mortice locks and dead bolts, means 'bodily-pressure' would have to be a sledge-hammer at least.

Far too noisy for serious felons to risk! I know it takes room in the shop, but far better than a claim on insurance.
:wink:

And a properly made ledged and braced door is ideal, especially with a thin sheet of galvanized steel over the inside. HTH


Regards
John

 

[Dibs-h]

Cheers chaps for the advice. I don't want to err too much on the side of a building site look - that would almost invite attention. Also don't like hasps and padlocks - almost every break in a member of this forum has had seems to have involved hasps and padlocks.

Now the sort of garage doors (for the new attached garage) I had in mind are like the below,

So fancied a matching single door (opening inwards) for the shop - how hard would it be to make one? Mortice and tennon stuff? Wedged tennons?

Plan B - Braced and Ledged door would be easier (I think). But I'd rather have the final product if possible.

Also for the door (and windows) part of me is re-thinking the hardwood bit - I'd have to PSE it - whereas odds are softwood is probably already available commercially in the sorts of size I'd need and some proper paint in a nice Edwardian colour. It's not about cost ultimately - but getting in and using the place as opposed to being half in. Besides it's all ground floor stuff - so not as if maintenance would be dangling 30' up a ladder. :wink:

 

[Mattty]

I thought this was a temporary door!

 

[Dibs-h]

Sorry - scope creep what can I say?

 

[Benchwayze]

Sorry - scope creep what can I say?

I thought that was a condition that only affected me Dibs!

Wanted to reorganise my shop by moving things around. Suddenly I am into making a brand new bench for my lathe... You know how it goes! :lol:

Regards

John

 

[OPJ]

Making a door like that shouldn't prove to be too challenging. The only thing that may leave you scratching your head is at the top of the door with the glazing bars. But, there are tricks to simplify that...! :wink:

Softwood would be fine as long as it is looked after and maintained regularly. It will require more regular care than most hardwoods.

Are you sure you want an inward opening door? Not only would is consume some space indoors but, you know, it would probably be 'easier' to force open than a locked door which can only open outwards.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Olly,

Just begging to differ here.

I explained why in my earlier post. Believe me, I know of what I speak. Provided you make the door properly, fit good bolts/locks, and for a shed, maybe reinforce the jam with angle iron, an inward opening door is far more difficult to open than an outward opening door. All they need for that is a good jemmy.

It's only in the movies that a shoulder-charge will open a strong door! That's why the boys-in-blue adopted the 'Enforcer', and sometimes it takes them a couple or more blows. A break-in merchant wouldn't want to make the noise or take the time. Okay, if a well aimed kick will open a door, I agree with you. However, you'll find only weak locks and bolts give way to that. It's a mistake a lot of shedbuilders rued, as they filled in their claims forms.

I suppose there will be a house somewhere with outward opening main doors, but to date I have never seen one.

Regards
John

 

[OPJ]

Good points, John! I never thought to compare with your average house!

Still, in a workshop (although this partly depends on size), I'd rather have outward-opening doors to save space inside...

 

[Benchwayze]

Olly,

You pays yer money... you takes yer choice. :lol:

I have to suffer an 'up-and-over' garage door. SWIMBO's decision. Well at least the south-facing metal door acts as a solar'heat panel, and I don't know what high-humidity is! I know it means rust, which I don't have! ccasion5:

 

[Dibs-h]

Hi Olly,

Just begging to differ here.

I explained why in my earlier post. Believe me, I know of what I speak. Provided you make the door properly, fit good bolts/locks, and for a shed, maybe reinforce the jam with angle iron, an inward opening door is far more difficult to open than an outward opening door. All they need for that is a good jemmy.


Regards
John

You so read my mind - I am erring down the road of re-inforcing the jamb with angle. And good locks. Just 'cos it's a shed doesn't mean one should skimp on the locks\doors - if anything it'll be more secure than the house - purely because it's unoccupied far more than the house.

Just trying to get my head around the construction aspects of the door. I'm struggling to get any kind of plans so might have to spend some time with some dividers and scale up\down from the picture to get the proportions (at least for a start).

Wood - suppose I might try and get the sizes worked out and try and price up the bits in various timbers. - Roughly the door needs to be 4' x 7'. Would I be better with a single door or with a normal size door and a "bit" that normally stays bolted down?

Construction wise - M&T would be the way to go? Also would the T's be wedged?

Also - the front door (house) is softwood painted green, the kitchen door is softwood painted red and the patio door (normal door) is a sapele one. It's quite an eclectic mix but I've always felt that whilst they maybe of slightly different designs - a standard look would be good. Is that going too far?

edit: The timber for external doors are there any recommendations interms of softwood and hardwoods? [Probably could do with changing the Post title as it isn't really about a "temp" door anymore.]

 

[Mattty]

Dibs,

That is a very big door.
I was going to suggest an external fire door as another cheap alternative but i don't think you'd get one that big. They are very cheap though if you do go that route, and can be easily made to look half decent with applied mouldings etc.

 

[Benchwayze]

I was going to suggest looking for one of Charles H Hayward's books on Carpentry. I loaned my copy out, and never got it back.
But if you go to

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Searc ... =Carpentry

you will find copies of his books. I think you will find full details for making a framed, ledged and braced door.
Most Forum members will confirm Hayward is 'the man' for explaining in print, and his drawings are second to none.

HTH

John

 

[Dibs-h]

I was going to suggest looking for one of Charles H Hayward's books on Carpentry. I loaned my copy out, and never got it back.
But if you go to

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Searc ... =Carpentry

you will find copies of his books. I think you will find full details for making a framed, ledged and braced door.
Most Forum members will confirm Hayward is 'the man' for explaining in print, and his drawings are second to none.

HTH

John

Cheers John - there appear to be a quite a few of his books on there - any suggestions as to which one?

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Dibs,

The one I had was called 'Carpentry & Joinery for Beginners' if I recall.
A lot of his books are 'for beginners', but I assure you, if you knew everything he covers, you'd be some smoky beginner!

If you don't have any luck, I'll do some more poking about and see if I can find something to assist.

Regards
John

 

[Dibs-h]

Dibs,

That is a very big door.
I was going to suggest an external fire door as another cheap alternative but i don't think you'd get one that big. They are very cheap though if you do go that route, and can be easily made to look half decent with applied mouldings etc.

At 1st I thought it was cool having a large door entrance - now I'm not so sure. :shock:

After a bit of pondering yesterday - I'm erring down the road of an oak door. If I make the new garage opening 8' wide that would be 2 of these as well. Just a shame that the garage side door isn't going to be 4' wide. Mind you, I do want a new front and side door on the house - so that could be 3 x4' ones and 3x3' ones.

Bloody **** - that's me busy till God knows when. Either that or the 1st ones puffins up and the rest are staying put. :wink:

 

[Benchwayze]

Dibs,

I located a drawing, and some text on framed, ledged and braced doors.
I will scan it this evening, so PM me your email address and I'll send it on.

It's from Ellis's 'Modern Practical Joinery'; a valuable reference for the way things used to be done. We might not have such good timber today, but there's no reason we can't make a 'proper job' from the best we can get.

I think there's a copy of that book at abebooks, but it might be expensive. Good investment though!

regards
John

 

[Dibs-h]

Dibs,

I located a drawing, and some text on framed, ledged and braced doors.
I will scan it this evening, so PM me your email address and I'll send it on.

It's from Ellis's 'Modern Practical Joinery'; a valuable reference for the way things used to be done. We might not have such good timber today, but there's no reason we can't make a 'proper job' from the best we can get.

I think there's a copy of that book at abebooks, but it might be expensive. Good investment though!

regards
John

Cheers John - will do. I've also just bought the following,

- Cabinet Making for Beginners
- Complete Book of Woodwork
- Carpentry (Teach Yourself)

by Hayward from a seller on AbeBooks - rang them up direct and bought them, a little bit less oddly enough. Should have them tomorrow.

Thanks

Dibs

 

[Dibs-h]

Cheers John - got your email this morning. Also got Hayward's books today so will go thru them this evening. A quick flick thru doesn't show much info on large doors only cabinet doors, but at £14 delievered for all 3 - be useful nonetheless.

I found some info on chestofbooks about frame\panelled doors - which is what the one in the picture (that I posted) looks to me. So will be having a bit of a think of how that would be constructed.