Bedroom Tax

[whiskywill]

Without the benefits system, Jeremy Kyle wouldn't have a show.

Can't say I've ever seen it.
Is that what you watch then, when you are not at the bookies? Shouldn't you be out on your bike looking for work?

I have never been in a bookies in my life. And why should I be looking for a job? I already have a nice well paid job which I like. I have loads of money but not as much as I would have if I wasn't forced to support the many parasites we have in this country, including my brother incidentally.

 

[Walter Hall]

I see the mother of the poor girl that was killed by the dogs lived in a council maisonette on benefits, and still had enough spare cash to keep five large dogs. Many working people couldn't afford it.

I don't think that is quite correct Phil. I don't doubt that the owner of the dogs was living on benefits, but she was not the mother of the child who died.

My elephant is merely feigning disability in order that I can continue to claim attendance allowance.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes, sorry - she is the girl's friend's mother.

 

[Dusty]

... And as for the £75 a week thing , bull poo . it's more like £75 PW , council tax £25 PW , rent £150 PW , gives you £250 , above the national minimum !

Kind regards Sam

And, with that £75pw (approx £300 pcm), you would probably have to pay:
Telephone / broadband (for job hunting)
Stamps / stationary (for job hunting)
Any required travel (for job hunting / signing on)
Gas
Food
Electricity
Water rate
TV license
...

How do you think others survive ? £250 is worth about £310 pre tax which equals about £7.80 per hour ! , well above the minimum wage and above the average wage for some ! I know a few people who are on £7.50 an hour who work for my father inlaw and they have mortgages , nice cars , children bla bla bla . You can survive on what they get

How much do you think a packet of paper costs , 250 sheets of A4 about £4.00 , pack of hundred envelopes £4.00 , that gives £8 , tenner on stamps = £18.00 . you can certainly apply for alot of jobs with that .

As for the rest of the bills .....we all pay that .

I think that what it boils down to is that when you work hard , pay your bills and whats left is yours to you choose to do with you wish , but you cant do it all . you have to make choices , one or the other , and if you want both you work overtime / 2nd job etc . The resentment is they dont even lift a finger and get the lot . I have always lived by my means , if I have it I spend it , if I dont , I go with out , quite simple really !

Personaly there could be a simple solution ......if you are on benfits , then to earn your benifits , there is should be an authority run institution where you will attend . wether it is packing bags for charities or sweeping the streets . One way or another you earn it , and then watch to see who can then be bothered to find a job . I do seem to remember a few years ago there was a similar story and the were then saying there is cases where by there is three generations of familys all out of work , never have ...is that because there is no work !!!

I was brought up with respect , ethics and pride .

And to top it off , my partner works in an institution ( goverment PRU ) where kids get there last chance in the education system when the main schools can no longer handle /be bothered with them . There was a case of a 9 year old girl who was not in a great situation/ struggling at school and wearing bordeline rags . I was approached to organise a voluntary team to go to her house and do a 12 hour remodel of her room . When we got there the mother could not even be bothered to get her arse of the couch . We re-carpeted , new skirting , new bedroom door , painted , new curtains and light fittings , posters , all for nothing and I sponsored the stuff . The whole time the mother did not leave the couch , smoked constantly and filled the ash trays ,whilst watching her "associates" on Jeremy Kyle " . The sore point for me was that the house was a SH1TE hole , mess , clothes and crap everywhere , she made no effort to move and apparently this is what she is like every day , hence the mess and to top it off , she does not work , has never and 99.9% sure she never will , but she will smoke 40 a day ,drink cheap wine and cider . Oh and just to prove they spawn disaster , her 15 year old son was living there with his 15 year old pregnant girlfriend and deemed it ok to smoke in his sisters bedroom ( *** burns in the carpet and over flowing ashtrays ) . The son took great joy in telling us that when his girlfriend gives birth , they are going to be moving in to their flat the council has given them , instead of staying at his mums in the spare room !!!!! ( nice little connection to the topic ) This whole situation is to convenient for some

Cheers and ta ta from the said land of make believe , must go as that fictional series is on ....Jeremy Kyle !

Sam

 

[nanscombe]

How do you think others survive ? £250 is worth about £310 pre tax which equals about £7.80 per hour ! , well above the minimum wage and above the average wage for some ! I know a few people who are on £7.50 an hour who work for my father inlaw and they have mortgages , nice cars , children bla bla bla . You can survive on what they get

But you are talking about people with jobs and control over what their money gets spent on as opposed to having rent / council tax paid and you having to pay everything else with £75 a week.

How much do you think a packet of paper costs , 250 sheets of A4 about £4.00 , pack of hundred envelopes £4.00 , that gives £8 , tenner on stamps = £18.00 . you can certainly apply for alot of jobs with that.

Then there is printer ink, assuming they have access to a computer.

With internet at £10 a month, or use of a free WiFi hotspot, you can apply for more jobs assuming that they actually exist. Then there is the cost of phone calls. Doesn't mean that anything will come of it though.

As for the rest of the bills .....we all pay that .

And a lot of us spend a damn sight more than £73 a week in doing so.

I think that what it boils down to is that when you work hard , pay your bills and whats left is yours to you choose to do with you wish , but you cant do it all . you have to make choices , one or the other , and if you want both you work overtime / 2nd job etc . The resentment is they dont even lift a finger and get the lot . I have always lived by my means , if I have it I spend it , if I dont , I go with out , quite simple really !

The slight fly in the ointment with that is having a paid job in the first place. It gets somewhat more difficult when the only job available to them is an unpaid placement in a shop.

And yes, I was brought up to live within my means as well but things like redundancy are usually beyond ones control.

 

[Lons]

to one in which having an illegitimate child is an acknowledged route to subsidised accommodation. .......

Complete nonsense. It's an "acknowledged route" only in the stunted imaginations of the moaning classes.

That's absolute bullsh*t Jacob. You need to work with some of these people to get an accurate view of the real world. Some might say you live in fantasy land - I couldn't possibly comment :wink:

The route is very definitely there and I have real evidence that it is. It isn't an automatic instant entitlement but certainly bounces the pregnant mum a long way up the ladder very quickly.

It's the offspring of these teenage mums who need our help as just like most of their mothers they know little else and are a product of a way of life which they are very likely to copy when adults. They are also likely to be around drugs, alcholol and tobacco and be at increased risk of abuse especially where, as is common there are a number of different partners and little evidence of a secure family group.
Note my use of words - certainly not every single parent family is like this and many are trapped and need help. The difficulty is that the genuine ones don't have the criminal attitude needed to defraud the system.

Bob

 

[Hardwood66]

Not everyone who get benefits is a scrounger

 

[Phil Pascoe]

No, but of loads of people who get them are.

 

[Jacob]

No, but of loads of people who get them are.

Only in the stunted imaginations of the moaning classes.
A few no doubt, but there are cheats and frauds at every level, especially where the gains are greater. Tax evasion is reckoned to be at least 10 times higher than benefit fraud. Banks are notorious for regularly defrauding their clients huge amounts of money. It goes on all over the place. This emphasis on the poor twerps at the bottom end is just a convenient distraction for the more competent fraudsters, banks, arms/drug dealers etc, with millions stashed abroad etc. etc.

 

[devonwoody]

Funny thing when I was younger and wanted a four bedroom detached house I asked the divisional manager for a rise so I could set out and look for one.

He said OK, you are in the running for sales manager, and so were another 170 staff but I got the house but I sure earnt it. I burnt out 5 years later.

I should have approached our local council and just demanded one, it would have been better for me!

 

[Walter Hall]

Only in the stunted imaginations of the moaning classes.

Only those who have an argument that is not supported by the facts ever need to resort to insulting those who disagree with them

 

[Jacob]

.....

I should have approached our local council and just demanded one, it would have been better for me!

What and stay on the housing list for years and years? Don't you read the papers (not counting the Daily Mail of course)?

 

[devonwoody]

.....

I should have approached our local council and just demanded one, it would have been better for me!

What and stay on the housing list for years and years? Don't you read the papers (not counting the Daily Mail of course)?

Jacob, thats why tenants who no longer need that bedroom space should then be downsized so that the larger family can be accomodated. (or they should have purchased the home when on offer so that they are no longer tenants)
That might help reduce the waiting list.
Dont start me on immigration. :twisted:

 

[Jacob]

.......... tenants who no longer need that bedroom space should then be downsized so that the larger family can be accomodated. ........

That's not what is happening. Instead they are being taxed, with no consideration for their circumstances, let alone the availability of smaller housing units. Many of these people would be unable to move - it's an expensive operation in itself.
Are they being offered moving allowances of any sort? Are people on the other side being offered discounts for being in too small housing? Is the tax likely to be deferred until a genuine offer of alternative housing is available? Is the tax likely to bring about a major shift in housing and release many unused bedrooms?
No to all these.
It's just a punitive sop to the Daily Mail moaning classes; scraping the bottom of the political barrel.

 

[devonwoody]

Ah Jacob you must be right, how thoughtless of me.

Must go to some socialist meetings and get some education. :wink:

None down here in Torbay.

 

[Jacob]

Ah Jacob you must be right, how thoughtless of me.

Must go to some socialist meetings and get some education. :wink:

I think you should, it's never too late!

None down here in Torbay.

http://www.torbaylabour.org.uk

 

[nanscombe]

Only in the stunted imaginations of the moaning classes.

Only those who have an argument that is not supported by the facts ever need to resort to insulting those who disagree with them

Talking of lack of (hard) facts ....

No, but of loads of people who get them are.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

.......... tenants who no longer need that bedroom space should then be downsized so that the larger family can be accomodated. ........

That's not what is happening. Instead they are being taxed, with no consideration for their circumstances, let alone the availability of smaller housing units. Many of these people would be unable to move - it's an expensive operation in itself.
Are they being offered moving allowances of any sort? Are people on the other side being offered discounts for being in too small housing? Is the tax likely to be deferred until a genuine offer of alternative housing is available? Is the tax likely to bring about a major shift in housing and release many unused bedrooms?
No to all these.
It's just a punitive sop to the Daily Mail moaning classes; scraping the bottom of the political barrel.

Instead they're being taxed?....Not giving someone something is not quite the same as taking it away.

 

[Jacob]

.....
Instead they're being taxed?....Not giving someone something is not quite the same as taking it away.

Close enough to not make any difference.

 

[Lons]

Are they being offered moving allowances of any sort?

Yes in many cases allowances towards moving can be obtained. Additionally the houses are normally fully decorated foc prior to moving in.

Are people on the other side being offered discounts for being in too small housing?

Why on earth should they be. The houses are owned and maintained by the local authorities (or us as tax payers!). The rents are already subsidised and the tenants pay for nothing in repairs, not even a tap washer - don't be stupid Jacob!

I'll give you an instance of recent mismanaged expenditure: Hundreds of council houses in North East Northumberland are in the middle of having their C/H boilers changed. Not only the boilers but radiators, pumps and controls as well as some of the pipes. The existing boilers aren't defunct, just a little long in the tooth but most perfectly serviceable. There is very little damage caused by the 2 - 3 day work but every tenant is given £75 worth of free paint. They just telephone a Freephone Crown number with their choice of colours and it's delivered to their door within a couple of days!

My daughter, a hardworking nurse has been saving for 2 years to have her ancient dilapidated boiler changed. A much lower spec system but still £2000.

Bob

EDIT - Forgot to say btw that they were also given a kit of paint roller and brushes and that there is currently a lot of very cheap good quality emulsion and gloss paint for sale in the area at the minute :roll: