Ashley Isle's Chisels - So Dissapointed

[Petey83]

Well my new set of Ashley Isles Chisels arrived today - bought as a belated birthday gift. I was really excited to get them and felt buying British was a big positive. Upon opening them it took all of 30 seconds for my excitement to turn to disappointment..... not one of the chisels was square and it was overtly noticeable to naked eye without a square. All 6 of the in the set had the same issue to some degree with it being more obvious and pronounced on the 1", 3/4" and 1/2".

Here is a pic of one of them....


Full marks to Alex at classic hand tools for the excellent customer service, I think even he was shocked at the photos i sent through. Anyway I've now arranged an exchange for 4 Lie Nielsen's and will add the 1" and 1/8" at a later date as funds allow (they don't have the 1" in stock and i had already added another £80 to the cost of the AI's)

I really wanted the AI's to be good, I really wanted to have a set of modern British made chisels. If it had just been one of them that had an issue I may have sent it back to be re-ground but for it to be all 6 just ruined it for me sadly. Let's hope Clifton can restore my made in Britain confidence when I finally get the money saved for a 4 1/2 or 5 1/2.

 

[galleywood]

I can see that they are not ready to use straight out of the box, but then again I assume you would be flattening the back and honing a cutting edge yourself anyway.

Have you pics of the LNs for comparison?

 

[D_W]

gahh...I just ordered a set of them, too. Someone named Andy emailed back and forth with me (was it AndyT on here?). They also came like that. I honed them square. I had Lie Nielsen chisels in the past, but Lie Nielsen's chisels are a construction chisel pattern. the mark 2 chisels are a wonderful pattern and at half the price. I eventually sold all of them - they are obscenely nicely finished, but the fascination with that wears off quickly once you're using them.

The other issue is that the Lie Nielsen chisels are A2 steel, which is a completely senseless steel for chisels. A2's advantage is wear, but that's not what causes chisels to get dull, so you get a steel that is more selective in terms of sharpening means, but that offers no real benefit between sharpenings in terms of longevity.

I have also noticed over the years that the amount the chisel is shown is out of square, if you're using the chisels for dovetails or to clean up tenon shoulders, it won't make any difference. It's easy to hone out and then regrind, and the chisels are technically better for cabinetmaking and at half the price.

Tough market for makers to sell tools in these days. No offense meant by that, I've just noticed in the last week or so watching a couple of people who are doing chisel reviews recommended on ebay - if the reviewer has to break out anything other than a medium diamond hone to flatten a new chisel, they're really complaining about quality. I suggested to one reviewer that they should get a roll of PSA 80 grit paper for $10 and flatten everything they'll ever get that's not perfect in a minute or two, and their only response was "shouldn't have to". Boggles my mind. We have to get to the point that we're making or modifying our own tools eventually to progress in woodworking - the magazines and blog experts are doing everyone no service when they convince us we shouldn't have to do anything at all to a new tool. The market has become a group of relatively helpless purchasers forgoing really nice tools (like these chisels) for minor issues.

For the less than $30 each that the AI Mk2 chisels cost me, I can't imagine trying to make them for that, bevel out of square or not.

 

[ColeyS1]

Why do they need to be square ? Makes no difference to how well they'll cut !

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[cowfoot]

Took me less than an hour to flatten the back, square up and sharpen my new set of 6 by hand. Quite enjoyed it, too.
Fair enough, if you pay L-N or Veritas prices (more than double, IIRC) you might expect them to be ready to use immediately, but as far as I'm concerned Ashley Iles make lovely tools for a reasonable price.

 

[transatlantic]

It doesn't matter how much I paid for a set of chisels. I'd expect them to be square. Surely that is one of the easiest operations in the manfacturing process?

 

[Petey83]

I was never expecting them to be ready to use out the box and would of gone through the usual process of flattening the back and then honing a primary and secondary bevel but to need to grind them square from new just does not seem right to me :? (I am new to bench grinder use as well) The Narex chisels i have just sold on as these were to replace them were all perfectly square out the box. Appreciate the AIs are hand ground as opposed to CNC machined like most others - maybe i just got a Friday afternoon set.....

I wont get the LN's until later this week - already aware of the A2 steel and it being harder to sharpen than o1 or PMV11 but thats not a deal breaker for me as its a hobby and not a living for me. As for the fit in the hand - can honesty say they seemed ok when i had a look at them previously.

I am not saying AI are rubbish I am just saying i am disappointed as no where had i read that this is what i should expect.

 

[AndyT]

D_W - It must have been a different Andy - I don't have any modern chisels. I only have about four that I bought new and they were decades ago.

That said, buying chisels is a bit like buying pencils, isn't it? If they come sharpened at all, it's just a demonstration to show that they can be sharpened. Every proper edge to really use will be up to the owner, according to their own needs and taste.

I can see that it would take a bit of the shine off a new set if they were all out of square, but I don't think it's a big deal over the lifetime of the tools.

 

[D_W]

D_W - It must have been a different Andy - I don't have any modern chisels. I only have about four that I bought new and they were decades ago.

That said, buying chisels is a bit like buying pencils, isn't it? If they come sharpened at all, it's just a demonstration to show that they can be sharpened. Every proper edge to really use will be up to the owner, according to their own needs and taste.

I can see that it would take a bit of the shine off a new set if they were all out of square, but I don't think it's a big deal over the lifetime of the tools.

Ahh...i'd have to go through my now deleted order history (hoarder history?) to see who it was that I was talking to, or even who it was that I bought them from - they are new purchase, so I've got you confused for someone at one of dealers. Delightful chisels, though.

edit...just looked it up, I did keep my order history, and it's from someone named "Andy Taylor" at classichandtools.

Assumptions...you know what they say about them!

 

[iNewbie]

I didn't know LN had stopped production of their chisels in 01 steel.

I thought the AI chisels didn't need the backs to be, flattened - like Japanese chisel they have a dish to them?

 

[D_W]

I didn't know LN had stopped production of their chisels in 01 steel.

They stopped O1 stuff a while ago. A couple of ancillary items are probably still made in O1 - like moulding plane blanks.

I don't know if they gave a reason, but I suspect that they find the air hardening steels easier to deal with in terms of distortion. At least that's what George Wilson told me.

Early on, they used water hardening steel and had a lot of problems with it.

It seems like the modern toolmakers are really consumed with precision, except the English makers are a little more in the old tradition where you let the process "come to you" a little more, as AI does with leaving the hollow on the back of the chisel.

I think if I said something to LN about irons being better with a hollow in the back along their length, their eyes would probably cross.

In terms of O1, I've maybe been lucky thus far, but I've noticed that always (almost always?), the side opposite the bevel is where the cup ends up after quenching. That's entirely desirable.

 

[ColeyS1]

I find it odd you've judged how good the chisels are, by whether they're square !
What happens if your grinding/honing skills aren't 100% ? Will you keep grinding and honing til there's nothing left ? What about how well they take and hold an edge ?
I'd personally concentrate on them being sharp all the time, instead of them looking pretty.
Im guessing the majority of my Ai chisels aren't bang on square. Makes no difference to how sharp they are, or how well they perform in use.

Coley

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[Cheshirechappie]

I've just held a protractor to the photograph, and as near as I can tell, the out-of-squareness is about 1 1/2 degrees. Given that the first thing anybody will do with a new chisel is hone it for use (after honing off any grinding marks from the flat side), it's not really much of a problem to correct even by honing; a touch on a grinder would be even quicker.

The OP is of course perfectly entitled to return any goods bought by mail order, and has exercised his right to do so. However, I doubt I'd have even complained. Maybe that particular chisel isn't 'perfect', but knowing that AI chisels are ground throughout by hand and eye, it would be 'near enough' for me.

 

[D_W]

. Maybe that particular chisel isn't 'perfect', but knowing that AI chisels are ground throughout by hand and eye, it would be 'near enough' for me.

I like that part - something that has a little variation seems a lot more human than something that is taken to NASA specs to be made absolutely identical in every case. Lively.

The chisels could be used out of square as they are above without noticing it other than seeing it (they'd still stab straight through a dovetail pare or malleting).

I don't blame the OP, though, I blame the woodworking magazine community that puts out reviews and complains about things like this and then subjects readers to thinking they should pay two to three times as much for elements that don't affect performance.

I checked my total bill (since we don't pay VAT here) for my recently acquired chisels - it was about $27 per chisel including fairly costly overseas shipping. They are superb for that - cheers to the trade workers at AI making them.

 

[Ttrees]

A bit disappointing that you would have to get down to a square edge on a premium chisel, but if I wanted them
it would not deter me .
The thing that matters to me is if the back of the bevel, or the ground profile is square, and it does indeed, look to be.
I've often heard that the very tip of many new chisels can be cheese anyway.
Is this the case with this premium iron too?

 

[G S Haydon]

I would of kept the AI instead of paying nearly twice as much for LN A2 steel. The grind, while not perfect is not an issue to be worried about.

 

[ColeyS1]

A bit disappointing that you would have to get down to a square edge on a premium chisel, but if I wanted them
it would not deter me .
The thing that matters to me is if the back of the bevel, or the ground profile is square, and it does indeed, look to be.
I've often heard that the very tip of many new chisels can be cheese anyway.
Is this the case with this premium iron too?

The first 1-2mm on my Ai chisels, didn't seem to keep an edge much different to my cheaper plastic handled chisels. Then it got to the good stuff and the rest is history. Fantastic chisels in terms of taking and holding an edge. I also give mine quite a beating and have only had one chisel handle split- I bashed it a little to hard with a brass mallet.
Coley

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[sunnybob]

I got very angry when I first started this hobby, and am still annoyed, that a tool sold for cutting wood needs to be sharpened or modified before it can be used for such. I find it amazing that so many of you accept this.

If a manufacturer cant supply a tool fit for purpose, then its a dam poor show as far as I'm concerned.

Would you buy a new car that needed an engine tune up before you could drive it away?

 

[Petey83]

A bit disappointing that you would have to get down to a square edge on a premium chisel, but if I wanted them
it would not deter me .
The thing that matters to me is if the back of the bevel, or the ground profile is square, and it does indeed, look to be.
I've often heard that the very tip of many new chisels can be cheese anyway.
Is this the case with this premium iron too?

The one image i have posted just shows the tip but a couple of them are also out of square right up the bevel.

As I have said I expected to do some prep work to them but not to have to re-grind them out the box.

 

[D_W]

A bit disappointing that you would have to get down to a square edge on a premium chisel, but if I wanted them
it would not deter me .
The thing that matters to me is if the back of the bevel, or the ground profile is square, and it does indeed, look to be.
I've often heard that the very tip of many new chisels can be cheese anyway.
Is this the case with this premium iron too?

The one image i have posted just shows the tip but a couple of them are also out of square right up the bevel.

As I have said I expected to do some prep work to them but not to have to re-grind them out the box.

That's fair. You wouldn't have needed to regrind them to use them, though. Aside from out of square bevels being unsightly, they don't actually affect function that much. You could use the chisel as it was delivered and gradually work it back to square.