Any electric oven experts in here?

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Only thing that demands a fully qualified person to attempt anything is Gas and need a Gas Safe person.
Not correct. A householder can do his own gas work downstream of the gas meter in his own personal private property (not a property that he then rents out). However, if anything goes wrong he would have to prove that he was competent to have carried out the gas works. Watching endless YouTube videos does not prove competency!

If he is carrying out gas works for any kind of reward then he must be GasSafe registered.
 
A "competent person"? I looked into this some while ago and from what I read you are supposed to pass some kind of test to show your competence, not just declare it.
Exactly. One can do the basic core training off one's own bat (and pay the course fees) which would produce a certificate on satisfactory completion. However if you are rewarded in any way whatsoever for carrying out gas works for others then you must be GasSafe registered which can only be done if you have completed and passed the training appertaining to the works you are carrying out (core plus elements e.g. if you have trained to work on gas boilers you cannot work on gas cookers unless trained to do so).
 
Took cover off - disconnected the oven element from the back. Switched cooker on at mains and immediate smoke from the control panel and it looks nackered and sooty. That seems to be the prob. Have called the local expert and will leave it to him - I don't want to make it worse.
7 years old. Not like the old days when an ordinary cooker would last 50 years!

View attachment 147997
Looks like relay has burned out and now is permanently switched on. Should be repairable by replacing that white rectangle to a new one. Or better yet to replace them all, not to have more problems soon again.

My oven had similar problem. One relay was was leaking current when switched on and caused circuit breakers to go off. Exactly matching parts were only on AliExpress which is doubtful source. Found suitable replacement relay on Mouser from Omron. Just have to match coil voltage, switching current rate and body/pins sizes. Here is for example a datasheet for the one that I can see on the picture: HF152FD/012-1H HONGFA RELAY

I would also replace all electrolitic capacitors on that board, also just in case. As these don't live long and the first candidates to be replaced on decades old devices.

And clean the board with something like IPA (isopropylalkohol).

Don't forget to turn off circuit breaker before disconnecting the oven from the mains. Make pictures before disconnecting everything. Or better yet a video that shows things under different angles. You need some dissoldering pump or hot air to remove those relay. Probably better to find someone who is more confident in this type of job if you have second thoughts.

As to your question, yes, you can probably use it as is if you disconnect one wire that goes from this board to heating element that is always on. Heating elements usually have some detachable connectors on them. Make sure you isolate the connector with electric tape and fix it to something so that it doesn't touch metal on metal anything. The reason why it should be safe is relays on ovens usually wired independently and have one wire in, one wire out. This is how they manage to be some kWatts of power and yet not to use heavy gauge cables but a lot of relatively small ones (1.5 or 2.5 mm2).

I wire all my kitchen myself and also repair them myself if needed. Expensive appliances are usually also better repairable. My father is EE and electronics was always my hobby. Saved a lot of thousands of euro this year (an oven, a washing machine, a tumb drier, a dishwasher, a gas water heater, an ADSL modem and a PC mainboard). All became broken one way or another after 9 years since we moved to our current apartment and bought them all brand new... amazing year.
 
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Fitted by "Competent person" So many get sucked in by tickets etc! Can be done by a competent person even with part P then get's passed by a Part P person which is for domestic Dwellings but not commercial which comes under Snicks.
Ive done lot's of electrics not qualified but more than competent and it's been fine esp if your not only using correct items but also tools.
Had to go in a few places and correct things done by so called Electricians as one had wired up a cooker extended cable with poxy Scotch locks(Was responsible for more car fires than anything else)SC had been melting!
Another was friends mates kitchen friend was fitting out after MFI type loons had messed guy around and twin and earth in dot n dab wall(used that steel stud work)wires went all over rather than a run and outer insulation stripped back miles and inner not so good. Mine is as tight as possible
So if asked you tell them it was wired in by a competent person and unless they demand a copy of Electricians Qualifications/18th/19th Edition that is sufficient and just don't elaborate as just dig yourself an hole.
Only thing that demands a fully qualified person to attempt anything is Gas and need a Gas Safe person.
I was not there so do not know what was said, it was also about twenty years ago. I would guess that they would have repaired or replaced it if she had a receipt from "bodge it and run electrical" but she had nothing obviously. I would assume that the manufactures guarantee specified the qualifications or they could decide who a competent person was. She may have won if she had paid for someone to inspect the cooker to find out the cause of the fault and confirm that it was nothing to do with my brothers wiring.
 
This "competant person" thing can be very misleading and ambiguous just like the actual 7671 regulations and often open to interpretation. I class a competant person for installation work as a domestic installer, very different from an electrical engineer.

You cannot self proclaim competancy, quote

" All domestic electrical installers registered with NICEIC are listed on Registered Competent Person Electrical. They can be found at www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk and are authorised to use the logo alongside their Competent Person Scheme Operator’s logo. This is to ensure consumers have just one intuitive logo to recognise but are still able to access robust support, such as the work quality guarantee. "

but if you are doing your own work in your property then you are taking the risk and if anything goes wrong also the consequences so it is your decision if you are happy to potentially put yourself and family at risk, and face prosecution. I would say that if you are doing your own work then only do work that does not require certification, ie anything that does not change the original design and avoid all special locations such as bathrooms.

A householder can do his own gas work downstream of the gas meter in his own personal private property (not a property that he then rents out). However, if anything goes wrong he would have to prove that he was competent to have carried out the gas works. Watching endless YouTube videos does not prove competency!
No, it is illegal and you must be registered gas safe.

quote

Domestic properties, schools etc​


In domestic properties and workplaces such as shops, restaurants, schools and hospitals, this must be carried out by someone on the Gas Safe Register who is qualified to work on gas appliances.

It is illegal for an unregistered person to carry out work on any domestic gas appliance. You can check this by contacting the
Gas Safe Register online or by calling them on 0800 408 5500.


All those who are registered carry a Gas Safe ID card, which shows the type of work they are qualified to do and whether their qualifications are up to date.
 
Why is the fuse in the neutral line ?
Don't you have a fuse in every mains socket plug?

But even though, if you think it has to be somewhere in the circuit. Connecting it to neutral has also a benefit - you can swap it live, there is a difference between touching neutral or touching phase wire. That would be my guess.
 
Yes but in the live line, now if it fuses there is no live to the circuit. If it is in the neutral and fuses then you still have live supply to ground.

True, it is better to disconnect phase wire for that metter, not to electrify the whole device. Maybe fuse in the plug does that, and so they put second fuse in the netural?

In EU and many other countries there is no fixed rule where is the phase and where is the neutral - you can plug device in either way.
 
In EU and many other countries there is no fixed rule where is the phase and where is the neutral - you can plug device in either way.
This might be because in the UK one of the domestic supply types is called PME, it is where the supplier uses the neutral to the property to provide the means of earthing and this causes further potential issues later on. It also means only the live will be at a potential above ground.
 
No, it is illegal and you must be registered gas safe.
I think you will find that The Gas Safety (Installation & Use) Regulations 1998 state:

"No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless they are competent to do so." Part B, 3.1 refers.

The Regs do not say that the person has to be registered with GasSafe!
 
Looks like relay has burned out and now is permanently switched on. Should be repairable by replacing that white rectangle to a new one. Or better yet to replace them all, not to have more problems soon again.

My oven had similar problem. One relay was was leaking current when switched on and caused circuit breakers to go off. Exactly matching parts were only on AliExpress which is doubtful source. Found suitable replacement relay on Mouser from Omron. Just have to match coil voltage, switching current rate and body/pins sizes. Here is for example a datasheet for the one that I can see on the picture: HF152FD/012-1H HONGFA RELAY

I would also replace all electrolitic capacitors on that board, also just in case. As these don't live long and the first candidates to be replaced on decades old devices.

And clean the board with something like IPA (isopropylalkohol).

Don't forget to turn off circuit breaker before disconnecting the oven from the mains. Make pictures before disconnecting everything. Or better yet a video that shows things under different angles. You need some dissoldering pump or hot air to remove those relay. Probably better to find someone who is more confident in this type of job if you have second thoughts.

As to your question, yes, you can probably use it as is if you disconnect one wire that goes from this board to heating element that is always on. Heating elements usually have some detachable connectors on them. Make sure you isolate the connector with electric tape and fix it to something so that it doesn't touch metal on metal anything. The reason why it should be safe is relays on ovens usually wired independently and have one wire in, one wire out. This is how they manage to be some kWatts of power and yet not to use heavy gauge cables but a lot of relatively small ones (1.5 or 2.5 mm2).

I wire all my kitchen myself and also repair them myself if needed. Expensive appliances are usually also better repairable. My father is EE and electronics was always my hobby. Saved a lot of thousands of euro this year (an oven, a washing machine, a tumb drier, a dishwasher, a gas water heater, an ADSL modem and a PC mainboard). All became broken one way or another after 9 years since we moved to our current apartment and bought them all brand new... amazing year.
So called "Smart Phones" do have some use with Camera tech! lol Always gives you something to look back on when you make a ****oo and it goes Phuuuuuuuut with lot's of smoke!
 
This might be because in the UK one of the domestic supply types is called PME, it is where the supplier uses the neutral to the property to provide the means of earthing and this causes further potential issues later on. It also means only the live will be at a potential above ground.
Came across that causes havoc with testers!
 
The Regs do not say that the person has to be registered with GasSafe!
Chicken and the egg ! To be classed as competant to work on gas you must be registered with gas safe to prove competancy, when I did gas it was Corgi .

You are interpreting the gas regs incorrectly.

Visit this government site, it is where you apply for a license to work on gas Register to carry out gas work - GOV.UK

1669586611384.png
 
Jacob's cooker is a case in point of installing printed circuit boards in place of mechanical switching. These so-called engineers are "parts changers" not engineers. The dumbing down of most trades is frustrating. Modern cars are a case in point of over compicating simple technology.
Unfortunately having a piece of paper does not prove competence. On a new build I had to employ a qualified electrician ("Napit") who was anything but. I was an apprentice trained electronics engineer and was far more qualified than this individual. When I contacted Napit, they did not want to know as "Your contract is with the individual not Napit". They said they would check him out on their next scheduled inspection for his registration.
I have had the same experience with a builder who was registered with NHBC. The covid situation has made things much worse. Very few tradesmen in the UK are properly trained none of the large developers actually employ people but sub-contract and in my view select the lowest bid, which is why new-builds have so many snagging issues.
 
Looks like relay has burned out and now is permanently switched on. Should be repairable by replacing that white rectangle to a new one. Or better yet to replace them all, not to have more problems soon again.

My oven had similar problem. One relay was was leaking current when switched on and caused circuit breakers to go off. Exactly matching parts were only on AliExpress which is doubtful source. Found suitable replacement relay on Mouser from Omron. Just have to match coil voltage, switching current rate and body/pins sizes. Here is for example a datasheet for the one that I can see on the picture: HF152FD/012-1H HONGFA RELAY

I would also replace all electrolitic capacitors on that board, also just in case. As these don't live long and the first candidates to be replaced on decades old devices.

And clean the board with something like IPA (isopropylalkohol).

Don't forget to turn off circuit breaker before disconnecting the oven from the mains. Make pictures before disconnecting everything. Or better yet a video that shows things under different angles. You need some dissoldering pump or hot air to remove those relay. Probably better to find someone who is more confident in this type of job if you have second thoughts.

As to your question, yes, you can probably use it as is if you disconnect one wire that goes from this board to heating element that is always on. Heating elements usually have some detachable connectors on them. Make sure you isolate the connector with electric tape and fix it to something so that it doesn't touch metal on metal anything. The reason why it should be safe is relays on ovens usually wired independently and have one wire in, one wire out. This is how they manage to be some kWatts of power and yet not to use heavy gauge cables but a lot of relatively small ones (1.5 or 2.5 mm2).

I wire all my kitchen myself and also repair them myself if needed. Expensive appliances are usually also better repairable. My father is EE and electronics was always my hobby. Saved a lot of thousands of euro this year (an oven, a washing machine, a tumb drier, a dishwasher, a gas water heater, an ADSL modem and a PC mainboard). All became broken one way or another after 9 years since we moved to our current apartment and bought them all brand new... amazing year.
Thanks for that very thorough explanation! I'll take a print copy off and put it in the file.
In the meantime I've decided to get an engineer in and give up on DIY. I'll show him your notes.
Gotta start making mince pies any day now! o_O
 
The dumbing down of most trades is frustrating. Modern cars are a case in point of over compicating simple technology.
When you have a shortage of skilled labour you start to fumble around in the bottom of the barrel. This is the modern way, get a degree in something and you can now do any job, it has been a total disaster for the UK ever since we lost our technical colleges and shoved every Tom Dick and Harry into university without thinking of future needs. This is one reason why we now have such a problem with nurse shortages, a nurse does not need a degree because the main requirement is a person who is compassionate and cares about people, that person can then be trained without needing to incur huge debts going through university. A lot of the problem has been driven by greed, look at property developers who have pushed quality into the gutter and deskilled the building industry to maximise profits, did not want skilled electricians because they are expensive and so now we have the watered down domestic electrician. Plumbing has also gone the same way, taking out the skills of pipe bending and soldering by using plastic pipe and pushfit connectors so now they can employ monkeys. When you look at the auto industry that has also gone down the money spining route, now we have a system failure light that allows a garage to charge you just to perform the diagnostic's and give you a rough idea of the possible fault without any Certainty of a first time fix, a nice open ended income. Diesels used to be so basic and run for hundreds of thousands of miles with nothing more than a single wire to the injection pump, all gone and now more complicated than the petrol version with a programable control system that determines everything, now just a single bad connection can bring the engine to a halt and an expensive repair bill. Then for more stupdity, the rise of the three cylinder engine that has a lifespan along the lines of a chocolate bar left out in the sun, my local garage see's many with head failure and struggling to reach the 100K mile mark.
Cookers are also as said becoming overly complicated when in reality they are just a box containing a controlled heat source, now we have touch controls and Wifi to do something people have been doing for thousands of years. Once you introduce firmware into the system you now have issues with fault finding and often board replacement is an easy option, all you can really do is to look at any input signals and check to see if there is an output but without knowing the exact logic within then you can never be sure of how the item functions.
 
You could buy a Ninja which cooks them great but downside is that you cannot get the quantity and so a case of why you need to keep the old fashioned oven.
and here lies the Air Fryer conundrum...we've had a Foodie 15 in 1 for a week now and already talking about getting a second one for stuff we can't do in the Foodie. To cover all eventualities (including mince pies) we would also need a dual fryer and a grill fryer/mini oven! This really does bring payback into question, especially if its Ninja stuff. We've agreed to hold our eagerness in check to see if additions are really necessary and don't start me on 'accessories'...
 
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