Another Ban on the way?

[Fergie 307]

Wood burning is carbon neutral if from sustained sources or wood waste. Every woodworker should have one, if they aren't living in a densely populated area.
There'll be plenty of wood waste around when we enter the impending scrap-iron age!
I do think heat pumps etc are extremely high/complicated tech, and will fail early in a crisis, if not sooner.
Low-tech insulation should be top of the agenda and not vulnerable.

Do you find your fridge or freezer highly complicated? Essentially the same technology as a heat pump. Much simpler than a typical modern gas boiler.

 

[Jacob]

Do you find your fridge or freezer highly complicated? Essentially the same technology as a heat pump. Much simpler than a typical modern gas boiler.

Maybe so but what I've seen so far it's the whole set-up which looks somewhat vulnerable, if not the machine itself. And it depends on the grid.
Fridges seem to work fine for 10 to 15 years but would a heat-pump set-up be so trouble free?

 

[Jacob]

And the CO², abd the poluting effect of smoke?

CO2 neutral via carbon cycle. Smoke pollution less severe in low housing density areas. I wonder if there are design or operational improvements which can be made for wood and waste burning? Low tech solutions tend to get overlooked.

 

[selectortone]

CO2 neutral via carbon cycle.

So that just leaves the smoke pollution then.

 

[RobinBHM]

I read a report somewhere, and no I don't remember where, that lung cancer was actually fairly rare before the mass taking up of cigarette smoking during the 14-18 war period

life expectancy around say 1910 was only 51

lung cancer is a disease that most affects people over 60

 

[Terry - Somerset]

A mains electricity failure can hit in minutes and completely disable all high-tech sustainable energy usage - heating, communications, EVs....end of civilisation as we know it, temporarily one hopes!
I least I'll be able to fry something and keep warm with my wood-stove!

Every man (or woman) for themselves. Survival of the fittest where fittest equals "man with woodstove".

Would you share it unreservedly, or harbour your stock of wood so it lasts as long as possible?

 

[Jacob]

Every man (or woman) for themselves. Survival of the fittest where fittest equals "man with woodstove".

Would you share it unreservedly, or harbour your stock of wood so it lasts as long as possible?

As a normal member of the human race (I think!) I would share it, and the heat from my stove, but with some little reservations if necessary.
I can see it would be a problem for a tory, having to work out how to exploit the situation for his own advantage in a time of need and hence competitive opportunity.
Given time, self interest might lead him to the "enlightened" self interest of becoming a "socialist" i.e. a "social" being, a normal member of human "society".
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months

 

[Phil Pascoe]

No problem at all for St. Jacob, of course.

 

[Blackswanwood]

As a normal member of the human race (I think!) I would share it, and the heat from my stove, but with some little reservations if necessary.
I can see it would be a problem for a tory, having to work out how to exploit the situation for his own advantage in a time of need and hence competitive opportunity.
Given time, self interest might lead him to the "enlightened" self interest of becoming a "socialist" i.e. a "social" being, a normal member of human "society".
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months

I assume you’d make anyone who sharpens with a Waterstone to stay outside in the cold though?

 

[Amplidyne]

life expectancy around say 1910 was only 51

lung cancer is a disease that most affects people over 60

Average life expectancy. What was the infant mortality at the time?
Smoking for 25 years raises you chances of contracting lung cancer by 25 times, that's apart from all the other cancers and illnesses it's linked to.
Most people start in their late teens.
I don't like those odds of being over or under 60 myself.

 

[Amplidyne]

The Chinese don't think so. They lead he world in Solar energy equipment and solar power.

The Chinese lead the world in making stuff, and collecting the hard currency that brings them.
If we (or rather our illustrious leaders) thought that having a yellow plastic toy duck each would make things greener (our leaders probably do think that) then the Chinese would supply us with more yellow plastic toy ducks.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Intermittency is not a valid argument against renewables .it is a trope pushed by the fossil fuel lobby.


https://medium.abundanceinvestment.com/the-myth-of-renewable-energy-intermittency-51d3c4991dff

The irony being the intermittent nature of fossil fuels being a single cycle that is nearing its night time phase.

 

[paulrbarnard]

As a normal member of the human race (I think!) I would share it, and the heat from my stove, but with some little reservations if necessary.
I can see it would be a problem for a tory, having to work out how to exploit the situation for his own advantage in a time of need and hence competitive opportunity.
Given time, self interest might lead him to the "enlightened" self interest of becoming a "socialist" i.e. a "social" being, a normal member of human "society".
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months

Pack in a few migrants the extra body heat will reduce the need for burning wood

 

[Jacob]

I assume you’d make anyone who sharpens with a Waterstone to stay outside in the cold though?

No of course not but I'd ask them to leave their waterstones outside.

 

[Krome10]

Meanwhile, thousands across the country leave their heating on and jump into their cars to go watch huge bonfires billow smoke into the night sky, sneaking in a burger or hot dog to boot...

 

[RobinBHM]

Average life expectancy. What was the infant mortality at the time?
Smoking for 25 years raises you chances of contracting lung cancer by 25 times, that's apart from all the other cancers and illnesses it's linked to.
Most people start in their late teens.
I don't like those odds of being over or under 60 myself.

this graph shows a 5 year old had a life expectancy of around 60 in 1910
so my point stands

I dont see how your historic data is of much use in regards to evidence of wood burning stoves particulates

 

[RobinBHM]

Meanwhile, thousands across the country leave their heating on and jump into their cars to go watch huge bonfires billow smoke into the night sky, sneaking in a burger or hot dog to boot...

one night in the year mind....

 

[Terry - Somerset]

As a normal member of the human race (I think!) I would share it, and the heat from my stove, but with some little reservations if necessary.
I can see it would be a problem for a tory, having to work out how to exploit the situation for his own advantage in a time of need and hence competitive opportunity.
Given time, self interest might lead him to the "enlightened" self interest of becoming a "socialist" i.e. a "social" being, a normal member of human "society".
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months

In the link attached the 6 boys were students at a boarding school - one assumes the offspring of (at least) well to do parents being privately educated.

In generally well ordered societies social interaction is based upon mutual benefit - it makes absolute sense to cooperate to improve circumstances for all parties.

Arguing that for a Tory the motivation for cooperation is self interest, and for a socialist the well being of society is grossly simplistic.

Tories are not so insensitive to the circumstances of others that self interest dominates absolutely, nor socialists so concerned for society they attach no value to personal rights and possessions.

Most Tories are firm supporters of the NHS, a decent state education system, support for those genuinely less fortunate, etc. A Tory government for 32 of the last 45 years could have dismantled public services long ago - reality - public spending has increased.

So why do you assume that it would be a problem for a Tory.

 

[Jacob]

In the link attached the 6 boys were students at a boarding school - one assumes the offspring of (at least) well to do parents being privately educated.

Exactly. This was Golding's own experience too. He thought it was normal! He was wrong - people don't behave like public school boys on the whole, but they do seem to find their way into politics, finance, law, unfortunately.

In generally well ordered societies social interaction is based upon mutual benefit - it makes absolute sense to cooperate to improve circumstances for all parties.

Yep. It's known as "socialism".

Arguing that for a Tory the motivation for cooperation is self interest, and for a socialist the well being of society is grossly simplistic.

Unfortunately it is exactly the case, or almost: self interest on both sides but "enlightened" from the left, with the realisation that close cooperation and support is good for all.

Tories are not so insensitive to the circumstances of others that self interest dominates absolutely,

Some tories, not all. It used to be called "caring conservatism" and we had the post war consensus. Both notions binned by Thatcher.

nor socialists so concerned for society they attach no value to personal rights and possessions.

No - you are thinking of hermits etc - those who renounce a secular way of life. They do exist, but not in huge numbers.

Most Tories are firm supporters of the NHS,

They were fiercely opposed to its inception

a decent state education system,

as long as they can have a superior private system. Anyway they need a skilled and educated workforce. "Grammar Schools" were initiated precisely to provide a literate workforce, not for any social reasons. Methodists were into education and healthy living too, to keep Satan at bay.

support for those genuinely less fortunate, etc.

But they measure the "genuine" to be in very small numbers.

A Tory government for 32 of the last 45 years could have dismantled public services long ago

They have been doing! Little by little. Surely you know this? Everybody else does. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/mar/29/short-history-of-privatisation

- reality - public spending has increased.

It has to. there is no alternative in the modern world.

So why do you assume that it would be a problem for a Tory.

Mainly because of the hysterical reaction they have to taxation itself, to welfare and public services in general.
The notion seems to be that ruthless self-interest - the un regulated "free" market etc, will somehow benefit us all, via the infantile "trickle down theory" popularised by Thatcher and Reagan.
These threads in this forum show all this very well.