America - REALLY????

[Jester129]

So according to President Trump (part two), America won two world wars!!
Is our history different to that of P. Trump?

 

[Spectric]

Well WW2 is much argued as without American supplies and or it's eventual involvement we were finished, equally you also have to give credit to the Russian forces fighting the eastern front.

 

[Chris152]

So according to President Trump (part two), America won two world wars!!
Is our history different to that of P. Trump?

Buckle up, the world is now set for four years of his claptrap, excepting a miracle or divine intervention.

 

[Sideways]

Thanks to all who pointed out that this did not belong in "General Woodworking".
Moved.

 

[Spectric]

Maybe I assumed that an established member would put things in the right place, it is more often new members finding their way that make the initial mistakes.

 

[AJB Temple]

Trump has told America exactly what ordinary working people want to hear. He will deliver some of it. Most ordinary US people will 100% agree that there are 2 genders, woke policies need to end, aliens chucked out, borders controlled, military refocused, deal with panama canal and china threat, etc. His speech was well aimed. This is politics. Travelling Keir will be wetting himself and Reeves of the fictional CV will be paying attention.

 

[ajs]

I think I prefer Stalin's assessment of how the war was won. It's often imperfectly translated as "British brains, American brawn, and Russian blood."

The imperfection in the translation is American "brawn" - that is to be read as a reference to their industrial output as opposed to a quality of the troops.

British brains is often cited as Bletchley Park but he lacked a full understanding of that and has to be considered more broadly, e.g. radar, the SOE and even things like Mulberry for the D Day landings.

Russian blood is self explanatory, their body count was enormous, although it should be noted that military doctrine didn't put the same priority on preserving manpower. It seems to be a cultural thing, today Russian casualties vastly outnumber the Ukrainians in that conflict.

 

[AJB Temple]

And anyone who thinks GB would have won WWII without massive US aid, equipment, planes, troops etc needs to study history.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Buckle up, the world is now set for four years of his claptrap, excepting a miracle or divine intervention.

According to Trump we’ve had divine intervention … God saved him so he could make America Great Again.

 

[rob1693]

And anyone who thinks GB would have won WWII without massive US aid, equipment, planes, troops etc needs to study history.

Yes and the us made great profits for the lend lease of equipment not fully paid back until the noughties

 

[John Brown]

Yes and the us made great profits for the lend lease of equipment not fully paid back until the noughties

Indeed. I remember being astonished when I read that the war debt to the US had finally been paid off. I'd naively assumed that it would've been written off years earlier, while America was booming and the UK were struggling.

 

[Chris152]

Travelling Keir will be wetting himself and Reeves of the fictional CV will be paying attention.

I'd imagine that very many people in the US and beyond are deeply scared this evening - those who testified against him, those whose sexuality doesn't conform to Trump's decree, those who've lived, worked and paid taxes in the US for decades and are now subject to deportation, those whose religion and race make them a target, those in Ukraine and elsewhere whose security is threatened by withdrawal of US support. Remains to be seen, but I'd say many of us should be feeling rather uneasy this evening.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Well WW2 is much argued as without American supplies and or it's eventual involvement we were finished, equally you also have to give credit to the Russian forces fighting the eastern front.

Supplies not sent freely. Paid for by us. We became indebted as a consequence. Our merchantmen (not US sailors) died in their thousands at the hands of Admiral Donitz's Wolf Packs.
The American Supplies argument is a false argument.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Supplies not sent freely. Paid for by us. We became indebted as a consequence. Our merchantmen (not US sailors) died in their thousands at the hands of Admiral Donitz's Wolf Packs.
The American Supplies argument is a false argument.

I’m not sure it is a false argument.

Yes, the supplies were paid for but there was no obligation on the US to supply them and indeed Roosevelt had to overcome quite a few obstacles to make it happen. It’s debatable if the Germans would have successfully got across the channel but without the help of the US Britain would have starved and plans were in place to keep the fight going from Canada.

US merchant sailors also died bringing supplies to Britain before the US was at war as the u boats saw them as a fair game.

Interestingly Germany finished paying reparations for WW1 in 2010 however their outstanding reparations for WW2 were written off on reunification. It’s strange how these things work out!

 

[bp122]

I think I prefer Stalin's assessment of how the war was won. It's often imperfectly translated as "British brains, American brawn, and Russian blood."

The imperfection in the translation is American "brawn" - that is to be read as a reference to their industrial output as opposed to a quality of the troops.

British brains is often cited as Bletchley Park but he lacked a full understanding of that and has to be considered more broadly, e.g. radar, the SOE and even things like Mulberry for the D Day landings.

Russian blood is self explanatory, their body count was enormous, although it should be noted that military doctrine didn't put the same priority on preserving manpower. It seems to be a cultural thing, today Russian casualties vastly outnumber the Ukrainians in that conflict.

True about Russian casualties. Not to mention the thousands of Russians who were killed by fellow countrymen as well even after the war.

I think Japan did the allies a favour by attacking Pearl Harbour.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Were I to have had a vote I don't think Trump would be my choice.

Europe and the US are in decline. They have simply become sclerotic. Socially we could decide this is desirable - less stress, keep everybody happy etc. Understandably a Trump victory is a threat to the comfortable and apparently stable.

We lack clear leadership, pander to all views, don't want to upset anyone and risk votes. Progress since the UK election is dominated by setting up countless reviews and enquiries, many of which will not report for several years. Claims of a Labour growth plan now have zero credibility.

Their Tory predecessors were no better - wasted years forcing through an ill-conceived Brexit, an inability to get on top of immigration, economic growth, NHS degradation etc.

The evidence of public enquiries is dire - Post Office, contaminated blood, Iraq, Hillsborough to name but a handful have all taken an inordinate length of time to resolve. This is just unacceptable - a waste of public money and opportunity.

So a different perspective - Trump is set on making radical changes rapidly. Some I agree with, some I don't. But at least he is a potential mould breaker when the alternative was 4 more years of the completely unremarkable.

The growing popularity of Reform is due to policies the majority seem to want. I certainly don't wholly agree with, and probably would not vote for them. But they promote a clarity of intent which resonates - the other major parties put increasingly sterile half truths before credible action.

 

[Dabop]

Yes and the us made great profits for the lend lease of equipment not fully paid back until the noughties

Most of which was already obsolete at the time, and much of which needed repairs before it could be used...

 

[Spectric]

The American Supplies argument is a false argument.

So if the Americans had not been willing to supply us even as a debt then we would have been finished, we just did not have the production facilities they had. Yes it was a gamble because if we had been beaten then I doubt Hitler would have repaid the debt.

 

[Dabop]

So if the Americans had not been willing to supply us even as a debt then we would have been finished, we just did not have the production facilities they had. Yes it was a gamble because if we had been beaten then I doubt Hitler would have repaid the debt.

Although his invasion plans for the UK were extremely dubious- his airforce had been decimated previously in the Battle of Britain, and without aircover, his barges would have been extremely vulnerable to airstrikes, the Navy and even coastal shelling (hell, it would have been easy for the Navy without firing a single shell-just run through the barges at high speed with their larger ships (they were designed for calm inland usage, rather than the Channel) and the bow waves alone would have been devastating...

Even without the US, I suspect it would have taken a long time, and a lot of dead soldiers, before an actual invasion of the UK succeeded- a landing possibly- but then they need to be supplied, and by the time the US entered the war, German was already struggling to hold onto what they already had...

A successful full scale invasion of the UK was unlikely to ever take place and succeed...

Taking back Europe did require the US help- well at least for it to take place in the time frame it did, it could still have been done without them, but it would have taken longer for the Commonwealth countries and other allies to build up the required forces... (Australia alone had a large industrial base at the time (sadly now decimated over the decades) with a ship building capability and the raw resources needed for armoured vehicles, ammunition and ships- what we lacked was manpower...

 

[Spectric]

Even without the US, I suspect it would have taken a long time, and a lot of dead soldiers, before an actual invasion of the UK succeeded

But we are an island, just resort to the siege tactic's used in the past to capture your enemy holed up in their castle. It might have taken time but during this time you are rebuilding your military.