Advice on hand rivit guns please to try and fix my Star Wars Prep. Cant snap stems and need way to much strenght to set on delicate prop

[Spikey]

Hi guys, lookign for some advice on use of rivit guns

I have this Star Wars prop I made on an Art Department course. A sort of mobile control system (whole design process page intor and menu can be seen from here notign this is not yet complete as still workign on it)

https://www.chrisrosedesigns.com/pr...ars-universe-prop-mobile-control-system-intro

On problem I have s with the transmitter towerswhihc can be seen below and some kit bash parts whihc wont stick on

If you look belew from the bottom there is box, then what looks liek air vents, above that what looks like a motor with pipe work in silver (an old dyson motor)

Above that is what looks liek a crown with lots of sticking up bits which are made from fast cast resin moulded from a toy sci-fi cannon.

These are currently stuck on to a 1mm thick (ABS or Polystyrne Im guessing) old multi shot barrel fro a nerf gun with zap it superglue and activiator spray,.






https://www.chrisrosedesigns.com/cm...rol-system-transmitter-tower-upgrade-aug-2024







The problem is be it suprglue or other the bonds are very poor and any slight knock and they break off.

As its difficult to get at the inside of the up pinting gun parts in the old nerf cartidige (ie the cog por sprocket shapped rings) and Im trying to make it look athentic.

Howevert hiese need to be structurally held in place and bolds and nuts looked difficult and coudl spolit the look so I thohght maybe rivits could work, blind pop rivits and I had an old discount store Wilco pop hand rivit gun.

Measureing the parts to be riveted on Id extemiate on average the inner plastic plus moulded parts conw to around 15 mm so looked at 4mm x 20mm rivits (these have steel stems

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081TFGKHJ/ref=pe_27063361_485629781_TE_item?th=1

But could not get them to set properly or cut the stems (I had to cut the first one off along woith the jammed gun with a multp tool

I thought cheap crap rivity gun so paind £32.99 for a much more heey duty lookign one from a decent prop tool store the Stanley ST Rivitier 6-MR77


https://www.stanleytools.co.uk/product/6-mr77/swivel-head-riveter

But this also does not work...

For one it takes a lot of strnght to do one rivity and I ened uptrying to use a

https://www.toolstation.com/irwin-q...YuBdYEJzTC5ANRI8LcMaAiJTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

a quick grip clamp just to squeeze the handles together

The rivit gun with that just about squzzed the rivits to set on test materials like a piece of mfd (as dont want to reisk the prop till get the hand of it)

But its not poppign or snapping the stems


WHat am I doign wrogn?

Is it the ritvts too long (the stanly tool says it can do up to 4.8mm or 5mm ritis and these were only 4mm but faily long at 20mm

It the tool just naf despite feelign much heaveir duty and a decent brand name from a professioanl store, Am I doign somethgin wrong as when I see these tools n you tub then seem to work easily just fee light sqeezes and the rivits is ste and spped off nice and neat, no massive conan the barbarian strnght neede fto work them

Do I need a different typr or rivit up like long handle lazy tong type

https://www.tooled-up.com/riveting-tools/cat/2000231/

or a cordless electric one that would costs at least 8 times as much?

ALso that prop is pretty fragile and dont want to use a tool that could rip a chuck out of it so needs to be somethign I could use precisely and controlled

I have tried both with loofe cast gun buts (or mor likely those already broken off) as well as those Inthingk still attached, (Do they need to be glued on place at the time?)

SHould I scrap the rivit idea and use somethgin totally different please?


Anyone clued up on rivit guns?

 

[ajs]

Firstly I would suggest proofreading prior to posting. A typo here and there is perfectly forgivable but the above is a semi-incomprehensible mess. You're not going to get any input from the most knowledgeable chap in the world if they can't be bothered to decipher your post.

As to the actual substance of your question yes 20mm is unusually deep for pop rivets. My first reaction was "Just how much strength is such a long rivet going to have?” Implied in that was an assumption these were aluminium rivets but I can see they're not but stainless instead. Stainless rivets need a lot more force to compress them than aluminium which is what the single handed designs are really intended for. You'd probably be better looking at the two-handed models with the "garden shear" style handles, specified as suitable for stainless rivets, but they are not cheap.

As for alternatives, I don't know. I couldn't extract enough meaning from your post to begin offering suggestions.

 

[Inspector]

Try all aluminium pop rivets or even plastic pop rivets. https://www.amazon.ca/DTGN-4mm-20mm...mm+x+20mm)&linkCode=gg3&qid=1727201180&sr=8-9

I concur with ajs. Hardest to read post I have ever seen. Sorry.

Pete

 

[okeydokey]

Go to halfords or similar and look at bog standard rivets look at lengths and compare to how thick the material are you only need them a little longer and buy aluminium ones. Your existing one handed tool will do the job well. I have no sense of what materials are you trying to join? Thin plastic? If so pop rivets won't work (unless with a washer each side/top and bottom of the materials) maybe short self tapping screws might
Araldite

About typing and suchlike try typing into word or something do a spellcheck and copy into your next post. Your CV shows you are mature with BA Hons. Sort out your post presentation if you want consistent help
Good luck let us know what works

 

[HappyHacker]

Despite having a very good grip strength and large hands I often find it difficult to set aluminium pop rivets in the larger diameters using the normal hand held tool and have to use two hands. I have never used SS rivets but imagine it would be almost impossible.
Using washers to spread the load on softer materials is essential. There can be a lot of stress put on the thing being riveted with a hand riveter especially if using two hands will your riveted item take some stress?

 

[Bingy man]

Hi guys, lookign for some advice on use of rivit guns

I have this Star Wars prop I made on an Art Department course. A sort of mobile control system (whole design process page intor and menu can be seen from here notign this is not yet complete as still workign on it)

https://www.chrisrosedesigns.com/pr...ars-universe-prop-mobile-control-system-intro

On problem I have s with the transmitter towerswhihc can be seen below and some kit bash parts whihc wont stick on

If you look belew from the bottom there is box, then what looks liek air vents, above that what looks like a motor with pipe work in silver (an old dyson motor)

Above that is what looks liek a crown with lots of sticking up bits which are made from fast cast resin moulded from a toy sci-fi cannon.

These are currently stuck on to a 1mm thick (ABS or Polystyrne Im guessing) old multi shot barrel fro a nerf gun with zap it superglue and activiator spray,.






https://www.chrisrosedesigns.com/cm...rol-system-transmitter-tower-upgrade-aug-2024







The problem is be it suprglue or other the bonds are very poor and any slight knock and they break off.

As its difficult to get at the inside of the up pinting gun parts in the old nerf cartidige (ie the cog por sprocket shapped rings) and Im trying to make it look athentic.

Howevert hiese need to be structurally held in place and bolds and nuts looked difficult and coudl spolit the look so I thohght maybe rivits could work, blind pop rivits and I had an old discount store Wilco pop hand rivit gun.

Measureing the parts to be riveted on Id extemiate on average the inner plastic plus moulded parts conw to around 15 mm so looked at 4mm x 20mm rivits (these have steel stems

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081TFGKHJ/ref=pe_27063361_485629781_TE_item?th=1

But could not get them to set properly or cut the stems (I had to cut the first one off along woith the jammed gun with a multp tool

I thought cheap rubbish rivity gun so paind £32.99 for a much more heey duty lookign one from a decent prop tool store the Stanley ST Rivitier 6-MR77


https://www.stanleytools.co.uk/product/6-mr77/swivel-head-riveter

But this also does not work...

For one it takes a lot of strnght to do one rivity and I ened uptrying to use a

https://www.toolstation.com/irwin-q...YuBdYEJzTC5ANRI8LcMaAiJTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

a quick grip clamp just to squeeze the handles together

The rivit gun with that just about squzzed the rivits to set on test materials like a piece of mfd (as dont want to reisk the prop till get the hand of it)

But its not poppign or snapping the stems


WHat am I doign wrogn?

Is it the ritvts too long (the stanly tool says it can do up to 4.8mm or 5mm ritis and these were only 4mm but faily long at 20mm

It the tool just naf despite feelign much heaveir duty and a decent brand name from a professioanl store, Am I doign somethgin wrong as when I see these tools n you tub then seem to work easily just fee light sqeezes and the rivits is ste and spped off nice and neat, no massive conan the barbarian strnght neede fto work them

Do I need a different typr or rivit up like long handle lazy tong type

https://www.tooled-up.com/riveting-tools/cat/2000231/

or a cordless electric one that would costs at least 8 times as much?

ALso that prop is pretty fragile and dont want to use a tool that could rip a chuck out of it so needs to be somethign I could use precisely and controlled

I have tried both with loofe cast gun buts (or mor likely those already broken off) as well as those Inthingk still attached, (Do they need to be glued on place at the time?)

SHould I scrap the rivit idea and use somethgin totally different please?


Anyone clued up on rivit guns?

Great photos and quality work but terrible spelling

 

[Spikey]

Sorry the post was written in a hurry and I was trying o work out how to add the photos, I was never taught to touch type looking at the screen.

I’ve tried to spell check the original post below,


Basically I’m trying to work out how to attach these parts (made from fast cast resin mixing two chemicals)



Polycraft SG2000 Paintable Fast Cast Polyurethane Liquid Plastic Casting Resin - mbfg.co.uk

To, a component from a hard plastic Nerf gun. Polyethylene with Polypropylene threaded through it I think about 1 mm – 2mm thick.

More solidly with a connecting rod/screw/bolt ort in this case rivet so the stop falling off all the time.



Just trying to glue them with a hot glue gun or superglue is not strong enough to hold them,


The resign cast parts very in thickness as it depends how much they were ground on a belt sander then taken out of the mould depending on how rough they were but on average appear to be about 15mm thick.



So combined with the plastic sprocket they are to be attached to would make a grip length needed around 15-17mm, hence trying to use rivets 20mm long.

All of these are to enhance the look of the two aerials or communication transmitter towers on m prop.



I thought of using blind rivets as the shape of the sprocket would make attaching a nut on the end of a bolts connecting the parts would be very difficult to attach as no space




_________________________________________________________________Edited below



Hi guys, looking for some advice on use of rivet guns

I have this Star Wars prop I made on an Art Department course. A sort of mobile control system (whole design process page info and menu can be seen from here noting this is not yet complete as still working on it)

https://www.chrisrosedesigns.com/pr...ars-universe-prop-mobile-control-system-intro

On problem I have s with the transmitter towers which can be seen below and some kit bash parts which won’t stick on

If you look below from the bottom there is box, then what looks like air vents, above that what looks like a motor with pipe work in silver (an old Dyson motor)

Above that is what looks like a crown with lots of sticking up bits which are made from fast cast resin moulded from a toy sci-fi cannon.

These are currently stuck on to a 1mm thick (ABS or Polystyrene I’m guessing) old multi shot barrel for a nerf gun with zap it superglue and activator spray,.






https://www.chrisrosedesigns.com/cm...rol-system-transmitter-tower-upgrade-aug-2024







The problem is be it superglue or other the bonds are very poor and any slight knock and they break off.

As its difficult to get at the inside of the up printing gun parts in the old nerf cartridge (ie the cog or sprocket shaped rings) and I’m trying to make it look authentic.

However these need to be structurally held in place and bolds and nuts looked difficult and could spoil the look so I thought maybe rivets could work, blind pop rivets and I had an old discount store Wilco pop hand rivet gun.

Measuring the parts to be riveted on Id estimate on average the inner plastic plus moulded parts filed to around 15 mm so looked at 4mm x 20mm rivets (these have steel stems

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081TFGKHJ/ref=pe_27063361_485629781_TE_item?th=1

But could not get them to set properly or cut the stems (I had to cut the first one off along with the jammed gun with a multi tool

I thought cheap rubbish rivet gun so paid £32.99 for a much more heavy duty looking one from a decent prop tool store the Stanley ST Riveter 6-MR77


https://www.stanleytools.co.uk/product/6-mr77/swivel-head-riveter

But this also does not work...

For one it takes a lot of strength to do one rivet and I ended up trying to use a

https://www.toolstation.com/irwin-q...YuBdYEJzTC5ANRI8LcMaAiJTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

a quick grip clamp just to squeeze the handles together

The rivet gun with that just about squeezed the rivets to set on test materials like a piece of MDF (as don’t want to risk the prop till get the hand of it)

But its not popping or snapping the stems


What am I doing wrong?

Is it the rivets too long (the Stanley tool says it can do up to 4.8mm or 5mm rivets and these were only 4mm but Fairly long at 20mm

It the tool just naf despite feeling much heavier duty and a decent brand name from a professional store, Am I doing something wrong as when I see these tools n you tub then seem to work easily just feel light squeezes and the rivets is set and snapped off nice and neat, no massive Conan the barbarian strength needed to work them

Do I need a different type or rivet up like long handle lazy tong type

https://www.tooled-up.com/riveting-tools/cat/2000231/

or a cordless electric one that would costs at least 8 times as much?

Also that prop is pretty fragile and don’t want to use a large heavey tool that could rip a chuck out of it so needs to be something I could use precisely and controlled

I have tried both with loose and glued on on cast component (the sticking up ones that look like sci fi guns) (or mor likely those already broken off) as well as ones which were loose



Do they need to be glued on place at the time?)

Should I scrap the rivet idea and use something totally different please?


Anyone clued up on rivet guns?

 

[Gordon Tarling]

As you've discovered, superglue (CA) doesn't work very well on plastics. I've found these two glues to work well on hard plastics and will subject your parts to far less stress than using pop rivets - Plastic glue - Another

 

[XTiffy]

I agrre about aluminium rivets, though they usually have a steel pin. There are plenty of companies that keep a wider range of pop rivets. Companies that supply to the coach building trade such as Albert Jagger in Romsey, Hampshire carry specialist rivets.
In addition to several hand rivet guns I have an air rivet gun, which makes the whole job easy.
I have used long rivets for use in wood (plywood etc,) that separate like a banana skin to grip the ply. My own use as mostly been around trailers and horse boxes for Heavy Horses where pop rivets are indispensible.

 

[Fergie 307]

Have you tried solvent cement used by plumbers for joining plastic pipe? That works on many types of plastic.
Re rivets, no chance with stainless with a one handed gun. As others have said get aluminium ones, but they will probably just pull through if you don't have washers to spread the load.

 

[profchris]

You could also consider epoxy, as someone else suggested (Araldite I think).

There are various grade of epoxy - JBWeld is for joining metal objects and makes a very strong bond (but is grey in colour - that might fit the look).

Epoxy makes a mechanical bond, so you'd want to rough up the surfaces to be glued - a small circle of abrasive glued on a dowel (or the end of a pencil even) could be twirled to rough up small spots without damaging the surface outside the glueing area.

Solvent type glues for plastic pipes in effect melt the two pieces together, but you have to check what types of plastic they work on as you're glueing dissimilar types.

I'd abandon rivets, the pressure usually distorts, pulls through or cracks plastic.

 

[Spikey]

Thanks guys for the help so far.

I think its too late for the screws as the Nerf section already has 4mm hold in each of the ends for the rivits, byt that could haver been a good idea before I did that.

Definetely think there needs to be some sorts or rod like pin structure to the parts (be that screwm ridm, colt, dowl or revito or other)so the outer parts are are not just glued on especially as its only a small part thats is glued leaving the long pointing up bits to get snagged or pushed leaverign the bond apart with sheer forces etc.

The riviets I had been trying I had got were stainless steel 4mm x 20mm. |Guessing thats could be why I could not work them. I don't need high strenght. This is pretty delicatem just anought to firmly hold the parts so they can take some knocks.

I did try and open and close the landles multiple times, I even used clamps, those ones with the squeezy handles for extra sequeeze grip power but they rivits did not break off or pop. have been looking up aluminium reivts but I think the actual shaft would still be steel.

Often the listings on the sites make the mistake of not including every detail like grip range lenght or what the stem is made from

Also I mouded some more resin parts and without too much grinding down they are averaging 15.5mm, (could make that thinner by 1-2mm)

The plastic on the Nerf parts thickness is about about 2.25 mm so about 18mm combined and if im currect that means I would need a rivit thats 25mm long not the 20mm ones I have.gfor a grip lenght of 18mm to 20mm

I have found some on amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0BJ9477NZ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=AIF4G7PLKBOZY&th=1

Also some metal washers for the inside where the nerf plastic is

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C6DB6X7P/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A326T84822IOYD&psc=1

I was looking at plastic cement to add as well till I read about it not working on resin and can sand the paint off the nurf parts prior to any glue

Ive just dropped the cement and applicators those off the the basket. Will be looking up hard plastic glue, so far whilst the glue is cheap the postage id pricy from where ive looked, over double the gllue cost and would take days, been lookig for a local supplier rather than online.


I do have a tapping set but it looks risky to try on the Nerf section in case the torque breaks the part as then Im fked as cannot replace that, The resin parts are reasy to replae but tnot the nerf base.

Solid revets with glue may help as an alterantive to pop rivets but cannot get at the other side to deform them and a hammer is ot going near this.

The plastic fasterfor car trim seemeda good idea but Ive only seen short not 20mm long ones.




https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0BJ9477NZ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=AIF4G7PLKBOZY&th=1

 

[Spikey]

there is a plumbing merchant near by Ill look into the cement

 

[Spikey]

could a thin player of plastzote foam ie camping mat under the wivit make it less likely to crack the plastic softening the pressue if I ried aluminium rivits under the metal washers?>?

 

[Fergie 307]

The aluminium rivets do have steel rods, but they break much more easily. The rods in the stainless ones have to be much stronger owing to the much greater force needed to set the stainless ones.

 

[Tris]

Look out for tri-fold or split rivets, they are often used in situations where a deep hole and spread loads is required. Easier to set than a standard rivet but will still need a good squeeze.
One of these worked well for setting them when a conventional pop riveter wouldn't

https://www.amazon.co.uk/JiGiU-Prof...2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfbXRm&psc=1

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Hot melt glue?

 

[Jake]

I'd try epoxy and something like a nail for rigidity.

 

[Spikey]

Thanks guys for help... the hot melt glue would nto help as its flat surfaces with a easly leavered top part to easily pull theop pointy bits off


the advice on the alumiumium rivits worked, I got a new set of riveits, a little longer that werre alumiumim (not sure on stems) these did pop and break off and work.

But then I thought . that point up gun but can still get cauth and its attached to very thin plastic so thought whilst the rivit may hold the resutl may mean next one that gets caught may result in the rivit holdign byt the attachment beign pulled offbreakign a chunk out of the base (the sprocket disc
so I did a little filling up the rivet compartment (photos will help here) with resin epoxy or was going to try glue gun glue as has a little flex but the glue gun trigger spring broke.,

the prototype was really solid so I used resin with a pippet to carefully fill those sections so the inner rivetend was embedded in solidf material and made that section thicketr and connected with the other sides.

Ones all the rivet compartments were filled with which when just mixed was runnyier than eposxy, way cheaper and I cound use pippettes to control filling>

I used superglue and accellerator on any loose ones to stop teising usign the rits as a pivot and to wick them to the base (this was just to stop them twistising as should not come off.


this is better to show

 

[okeydokey]

spellcheck