advice for wood selection for frame saw/bow saw

[dannyr]

Thinking of making a couple of frame/bow saws - one shorter as a turning saw (10-12" blade) other as a continental-style frame saw for general workshop use so about 24" blade.

I intend to use broken bandsaw blades as a starter blade (have a 3/16 and a 1/2 in respectively)

I have some nice boxwood or ebony for handles, so what wood for frame - sides, stretcher and 'clacker'.

Sides must be stiff, not too dense and not move over time - oak? hornbeam?
stretcher is traditionally low density wood, eg spruce on the continental type - good compressive strength (as all woods) but keeps weight of saw down
clacker anything as easy to replace and can be made thin

if going to the trouble of making these, a handsome wood would be nice - but mustn't warp over time

I know the trad Marples etc frame turning saw was all beech - nice but a little clunky and they had plenty of this for their planes, chisels etc.

your advice?
have you made such?

 

[D_W]

Beech or ash.

 

[IWW]

Ash, hornbeam, beech, all traditional frame woods & perfectly ok. The trick is to pare down the weight where it's not needed. I've made & used 10 & 12 inch turning saws for many years, but from woods that won't be available in your neck of the woods. Some of our acacias have a good balance of density & strength and make excellent raw material for small saws. This is my 10", which I use more frequently than any other:

It's probably more sound structurally if you keep the arms straight, but if you want to make it a bit more attractive & curve the arms, try to get maximum long grain through the length. This saw would be the 4th or 5th since I first made a frame & trial & error has got me a frame that's the right proportions to suit the jobs I use it for & minimise weight, especially above the stretcher, so it doesn't feel top-heavy when turning in a cut.

Getting hold of decent 10 & 12 inch blades has become a problem, where once they were common & readily vailable, they have become a rare & endangered species. I doubt you will enjoy using typical bandsaw blades, they usually have positive rake & excessive set that makes for a rough & 'bitey' hand-operated saw. Most nowadays have impulse-hardened teeth, which doesn't allow you to file a more friendly style of tooth. I have used spent blades as raw material, I cut the old teeth off & make new ones. Making the mounting holes might cause you some diifuculty, saw plate will demolish a standard HSS bit quicksmart, so be prepared to sacrifice a bit or two if you go that route. I use a small carbide spear-point (meant for drilling glass) to make the holes, drilling very carefully from each side. A 1.6mm nail makes a good pin.

These days I have a small metal lathe so I can make fancy brass end bits, but my first models used hardware store bolts & worked ok. The bit of shaft that goes though the arm at the handle end should be tapered, so that it locks in position under tension, otherwise the blade tends to twist when you don't want it to. If you use a straight bolt, an O-ring slipped betwen handle & arm does the same job. A 9.5 (3/8") bolt is a good size for the shafts & the stem o-ring for an old style water tap is just the right size, but you'll need to replace it every now & then.

There is a sharp learning curve if you've not used turning saws before, but once you get used to them, they are the handiest little saws to have around...

Ian

 

[dannyr]

Ash, hornbeam, beech, all traditional frame woods & perfectly ok. The trick is to pare down the weight where it's not needed. I've made & used 10 & 12 inch turning saws for many years, but from woods that won't be available in your neck of the woods. Some of our acacias have a good balance of density & strength and make excellent raw material for small saws. This is my 10", which I use more frequently than any other: View attachment 112134

It's probably more sound structurally if you keep the arms straight, but if you want to make it a bit more attractive & curve the arms, try to get maximum long grain through the length. This saw would be the 4th or 5th since I first made a frame & trial & error has got me a frame that's the right proportions to suit the jobs I use it for & minimise weight, especially above the stretcher, so it doesn't feel top-heavy when turning in a cut.

Getting hold of decent 10 & 12 inch blades has become a problem, where once they were common & readily vailable, they have become a rare & endangered species. I doubt you will enjoy using typical bandsaw blades, they usually have positive rake & excessive set that makes for a rough & 'bitey' hand-operated saw. Most nowadays have impulse-hardened teeth, which doesn't allow you to file a more friendly style of tooth. I have used spent blades as raw material, I cut the old teeth off & make new ones. Making the mounting holes might cause you some diifuculty, saw plate will demolish a standard HSS bit quicksmart, so be prepared to sacrifice a bit or two if you go that route. I use a small carbide spear-point (meant for drilling glass) to make the holes, drilling very carefully from each side. A 1.6mm nail makes a good pin.

These days I have a small metal lathe so I can make fancy brass end bits, but my first models used hardware store bolts & worked ok. The bit of shaft that goes though the arm at the handle end should be tapered, so that it locks in position under tension, otherwise the blade tends to twist when you don't want it to. If you use a straight bolt, an O-ring slipped betwen handle & arm does the same job. A 9.5 (3/8") bolt is a good size for the shafts & the stem o-ring for an old style water tap is just the right size, but you'll need to replace it every now & then.

There is a sharp learning curve if you've not used turning saws before, but once you get used to them, they are the handiest little saws to have around...

Ian

Great -- thanks for all that - interested that 10in blades are your choice as I just happen to have a small stock. Also tend to collect 'old junk' just in case so have some brass rod of a good size. I have an old small metal screw punch, and after wasting a drill bit or two, this goes through saw blades just fine.

I have already used Marples turning saw and like it, I also have an old Swedish frame saw - very long blade (1m) and boringly (but sensibly) straight in all places --- but have been looking at pix of delightful old French saws with curves all over - thus the Q about wood choice - mustn't warp over time if left under tension.

I like English hand saws, but fascinated that, while much of the rest of the craftsmen's tools were the same pre mechanisation, quite different saws were used each side of the channel.

 

[IWW]

....I like English hand saws, but fascinated that, while much of the rest of the craftsmen's tools were the same pre mechanisation, quite different saws were used each side of the channel.....

Yes, it would be interesting to know how & why the different traditions evolved. I guess frame saws make more economical use of steel, which would have been a consideration before steel-making was industrialised. "Free" blades also need to be evenly tempered throughout, which would've taken a while to master. But technology was at pretty much the same level on both sides of the channel, so that's not the reason the Brits went for free-bladed saws.

I like my little 10 inch saw because it's light & maneuverable & just the right size for the jobs I use it for (like cutting out a saw handle blank or shaping the arms of another bowsaw), but there are jobs where I reach for the 12 inch job, on which I keep a wider blade, which makes it better for straight cuts or gentle curves. So what size you end up preferring will depend on what you use it for, but I'd say you can't go too far wrong starting with a 10"...
Cheers,
Ian