A bench too far ???

[mtr1]

Do you not have a hand held circ saw Pete? you could use one by flipping the timber only need a cut 50mm, you could just take it down a bit at a time. You could make some kind of guide rail from mdf if you can't follow a line :wink:

As for that being "his" copyright design :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: jog on

 

[studders]

Pete I thought you was 'Mr Chainsaw' ? I think you're over complicating this design. As Rob says, it's a park bench, not a studio piece. Chainsaw it, then belt sand it smooth!

If it was "just a park bench" , it would be a piece of pi$$ - couple of jarrah slepers, few chainsaw cuts , whack it together with dowels or coachh bolts with plugs over them to hide them and jobs a good 'un (we've done quite a few of those already)

However this is a very demanding client who wants a "perfect" piece

In which case, and no disrespect to 'Tha Mooooose' , she should commission someone who is au fait with this type of work. Either that or accept that you will do your best but.......

 

[studders]

As for that being "his" copyright design :lol: jog on

If the bench I've looked at is the one in question then I'm inclined to agree with you.

 

[woodbloke]

Do you not have a hand held circ saw Pete? you could use one by flipping the timber only need a cut 50mm, you could just take it down a bit at a time.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt...burnt the motor out Not recommended - Rob

 

[big soft moose]

Pete I thought you was 'Mr Chainsaw' ? I think you're over complicating this design. As Rob says, it's a park bench, not a studio piece. Chainsaw it, then belt sand it smooth!

If it was "just a park bench" , it would be a piece of pi$$ - couple of jarrah slepers, few chainsaw cuts , whack it together with dowels or coachh bolts with plugs over them to hide them and jobs a good 'un (we've done quite a few of those already)

However this is a very demanding client who wants a "perfect" piece

In which case, and no disrespect to 'Tha Mooooose' , she should commission someone who is au fait with this type of work. Either that or accept that you will do your best but.......

None taken studders - Ive made that self same point to the client - and pointed out that she can buy the bench from chris nangle for less that the wood will cost if we make it

trouble is for some reason she is stuck on the idea of having it made by us - which we offered as an alternative before i'd seen the design - lessons learned there but i'm still stuck with the job this time round

circular saw wise I have dewalt plungesaw and guide rail - but that only plunges two and a half inches also, so its no different to using the saw table

 

[Boatfixer]

If the client is willing to pay more then why not see if Chris will sell you the bench in kit form..... You "build" it and everybody is happy

 

[squib]

I feel very strongly about copying for money, which i have posted on before and think it is wrong to slag off somebodies work and encourage them to copy it anyway.BSM has quite rightly asked and now has permission to make the bench which is excellent ,i just wish that some people on here spent as much time designing original pieces as they do making them for profit, I don't include the folks that are inspired by a design and then build it for them selves this to me is a tribute.(IMHO)

 

[theartfulbodger]

The client also wants a carved in memorial on the seat back - given that its too big to fit under our cnc this means hand carving

this any good?
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psPro ... i?promo=81

 

[Dibs-h]

I've been following this thread and it is commendable that Moose sought permission from Chris.

The one thing I didn't do is look at the link Moose posted to actually have a look at the bench in question. I just assumed that had something different than any other bench I had seen.

Whilst Chris has had design copyrights upheld in court and so he should - these will have been based on something specific - the bench as far as I can see is generic and I don't believe for one minute that if someone was to mass produce them (I do not mean buy one from Chris and clone it) and from 10 feet away looked the same - no court in this land would uphold any copyright.

We can agree to disagree - at the end of the day it's all about enforcingment and that costs bucks, but in this case I don't believe such a case would have any merit. This is probably where the marketing hype of outfits like ACID and reality start to deviate. Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking ACID, FAST\FACT are the same. It doesn't mean diddly until the Court decides and in a lot of cases the parties with the bigger financial muscles do bully the other.

My 2c worth

Dibs

 

[chris nangle furniture]

The hand carving that we do looks a million miles away from router carving,my mate has a very good cnc set up but its not a patch on hand carving by someone with 30 years experiance.

 

[chris nangle furniture]

Do you not have a hand held circ saw Pete? you could use one by flipping the timber only need a cut 50mm, you could just take it down a bit at a time. You could make some kind of guide rail from mdf if you can't follow a line :wink:

As for that being "his" copyright design :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: jog on

good at cutting curves in 100.mm oak with a circuler saw are ya? love to see that in practice LOL

and yes it is my design ,after 12 years of business ,do you not think i did any product resurch? and if i just picked a bench from b and q to copy what would be my usp? why would i be specified by leading architects all around europe ? if they could buy my work on any high street ?why would my work have featured in gold medal best in show gardens at the rhs chelsea flower show hampton ct flower show and tatton park flower show.
credit me with some intelagence

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

Personally I can't see anything "unique" in that bench that would allow it to qualify for copyright protection.

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyr ... yright_law

Copyright is an automatic right and arises whenever an individual or company creates a work. To qualify, a work should be regarded as original, and exhibit a degree of labour, skill or judgement.

I suspect it falls foul of that requirement HOWEVER I am not a lawyer so this is purely opinion.

credit me with some intelagence

Kind of hard considering every single one of your posts is riddled with spelling errors, even though there is a spellcheck button below the text box you type in... Where else do you spend so little effort?

I would point out as well that appearing on this forum is not proof of who you are and I would advise BSM to contact "Chris" via his website and get something in writing / via email if he is actually concerned about copyright infringement.

 

[Dibs-h]

Personally I can't see anything "unique" in that bench that would allow it to qualify for copyright protection.

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyr ... yright_law

Copyright is an automatic right and arises whenever an individual or company creates a work. To qualify, a work should be regarded as original, and exhibit a degree of labour, skill or judgement.

B0llocks!

Expect to see a whole load of tools when me and the rest of the gang are forced to sell all our tools and equipment as I don't think many have made an original piece! :lol:

 

[chris nangle furniture]

Kind of hard considering every single one of your posts is riddled with spelling errors, even though there is a spellcheck button below the text box you type in... Where else do you spend so little effort?

I would point out as well that appearing on this forum is not proof of who you are and I would advise BSM to contact "Chris" via his website and get something in writing / via email if he is actually concerned about copyright infringement.[/quote]


dont be such a tw*t i have neither the time or inclanation to check every spelling.
i am a furniture maker not an english teacher !

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

I'm just quoting what is on their site and i did say I am not a lawyer.

I suspect if BSM was to copy the design to the exact mm & have any curves the same radius, then it might well be infringement as it would be a 1:1 copy. If he had a curve that was a few degrees different & moved some pieces by 2 or 3 mm then it would be awfully hard to argue it was an exact copy especially if the piece was bigger or smaller.

Anyhow, it's just my £0.02 and as stated I am no expert.

dont be such a tw*t i have neither the time or inclanation to check every spelling.
i am a furniture maker not an english teacher !

I'm not an English teacher either but I still take the time to make an effort to ensure what I type is legible especially if I am having a rant.

 

[jaffajim0]

credit me with some intelagence

Kind of hard considering every single one of your posts is riddled with spelling errors, even though there is a spellcheck button below the text box you type in... Where else do you spend so little effort?

I can't believe the flak (and how personal it is) this guy is getting for answering a question in a helpful way. 1st off he has acknowledged the original question and graciously given permission where it was sought when he did not need to. If he says that he designed the bench from his own thoughts then I for one think that he has to be believed and if he has succesfully argued his case in court even more so as he knows full well that someone could come along and take him to court if he had used their design.
As for the attacks over his spelling I fink you are well owt of oorda!! What does it matter if he mis spells the odd word. Does it make him wrong or less valid?

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

--snip--
As for the attacks over his spelling I fink you are well owt of oorda!! What does it matter if he mis spells the odd word. Does it make him wrong or less valid?

If it was the odd word I wouldn't have mentioned it, however as I said the spell check is already there and to use it would be minimal effort, it's laziness not to. I spell check the vast majority of posts I make as I know my spelling is bad.

If you were applying for a job would you send in a CV riddled with errors? You might be an exceptional employee but your CV would still go straight to the bin because the question would be as I stated earlier "if you are sloppy here where else are you sloppy?".

I will concede that perhaps the appending of "where else are you sloppy?" was a tad out of order so I will apologise for that, but I still standby the comment on spelling in general as I don't think it is asking too much to click the "spellcheck" button before you submit.

We have no proof other than his word that this is Chris from that site. So the permission granted here means little other than BSM could claim he accepted it in good faith. In saying that a mod could check the email address used to register to see if it is one on the same domain as the site.

 

[Dibs-h]

if he has succesfully argued his case in court even more so as he knows full well that someone could come along and take him to court if he had used their design.

I think you have mis-read Chris's post -

I dont think mate I know! and have won in a court,so perhaps you should take it up with acid who fight my corner ,its my design I own it and thats about it matey.

He states he has won in Court - but makes countless peices of furnture no doubt. It's a bit far to stretch it to this bench.

I am sure if he had a won a copyright case on this bench - he would have stated so. As stated before - no doubt some of Chris's pieces are unique, but the discussion is on this bench, which a segment of forumites believe is as unique as a hen's egg.

Dibs

 

[grahamar]

Hi,

I guess if I were in Big Soft Moose's position I would feel I had these options:

a) go back to client and say - "Sorry I can't do this. I don't have the equipment/resources to do it in the way you want".
b) as another post(er) mentioned, to ask Chris if he would make the bench and then for BSM to fit it via a an agreement between the parties.

So, indeed it maybe a bench too far, as you say.

Graham

 

[studders]

I can't believe the flak (and how personal it is) this guy is getting.....

I think you're rather exaggerating the extent of the 'flak' as you call it. Though I agree, in principle, with you in regards to the spelling issue I do think it rather lazy not to bother using the spell checker provided, it only takes seconds.
The main issue appears to be whether or not an apparently bog standard bench design that has been around for generations can be 'claimed' to be a unique design.
We've yet to have confirmation of the bench in question so, we may all be barking up the wrong bench.

Edit. I missed the link to the bench in question.

Having now seen it, or a picture of it, I honestly can't see how a claim that the design is 'original' can be valid. It's a bog standard bench design with some extra detailing that has been done, possibly many times, previously on similar constructions.