Aquarium support / storage

[miles_hot]

I am going to post up my very first bit of furniture as I have a host of questions and also have enjoyed everyone else's WIPS so time to put something back.

We are going to get our first every fish tank soon (much sooner than I thought thanks to research about just how long it takes to cycle one through to the point where you should put your final fish in! :twisted. The unit to hold this will go in the hall and will replace the existing clutter of circular table (piled high with post, to do items, filing and general rubbish) and shoe rack.

This is what I expect the final unit to look like:


I have done some calculations and the tank will hold around 50 gallons, which is around 225Kg, of water so this unit will be holding over .25 of a tonne! As such I have gone for a substantial frame consisting of mainly 2"x3" timber (initial thoughts are oak however see one of the questions below). The frame members running toward you will be in-filled on both sides with 18mm MDF to provide extra strength, anti racking and somewhere to screw the draw runners into. The MDF is shown as OSB in the sketch up as I don't have an MFD texture!



I have a number of questions:
1) I have chosen Oak as I know it is string however I am a little worried about both availability in planed sections (lacking a t/p) and the cost. Am I correct to target oak or could this be done in soft wood with an Oak lip for the look of it?
2) I am assuming that M&T joints for the elements coming towards me and then housing joints for the items running left and right - does this feel like a good idea and are there any other joints I should think about? I can post some pictures to explain what I mean if it would help...I assume that I don't need to do the draw and peg for the M&T or would this significantly help?
3) The MDF in-fills will be let into a 10mm x 18mm grove around the frame - will the weaken the 2x3 members or will it make little difference? I intend to glue and screw the MDF into place however I suspect that the shape and fit into the grove will provide all the anti racking etc. Would this be right?
3) Will this be strong enough?
4) I have included some bearers to be rested on the floor to spread the load. I suspect these will be a pain as the floor is riven stone and so scribing to it will be a sod. Do I need them or can the legs just go straight onto the floor? The floor is stone over concrete and as there is Under Floor Heating nothing will be fixed to the floor - however anything that touches a wall will be screwed to it.

That's probably enough to be going on with...

Many thanks for all your help on this one, I think I'm going to need it!

Miles

 

[promhandicam]

If you don't have a p/t make the whole thing out of veneered mdf with a solid oak face frame. You can then get away with small easily obtainable sections of oak for the face frame. 19mm mdf would be adequate as long as it was well put together - glue, screws, biscuits etc.

I did a stand for a 500 litre aquarium out of mdf / ply and it was fine. There is a thread here. Please bare in mind that this was made in Lomé, Togo and so I was fairly limited in what materials I had available. If I were doing it again though, I'd still do the carcase in veneered mdf. The choice is then up to you whether you go for face frame and inset doors / drawers or lay on drawers / doors.

HTH,

Steve

 

[Chems]

I agree with promhandicam, veneered MDF doesn't sound like a bad idea at all specially seen as you only have one show face. Think of all the time you'll save with M+T and the cost of getting the oak planned up.

Whats the top made out of? As thats going to be holding the weight to spread it across the MDF bottom which will all be screwed to the walls and bits.

The one problem with solid is if it is trapped in up against the wall it wouldn't have toom to expand and contract?

 

[miles_hot]

I agree with promhandicam, veneered MDF doesn't sound like a bad idea at all specially seen as you only have one show face. Think of all the time you'll save with M+T and the cost of getting the oak planned up.

Whats the top made out of? As thats going to be holding the weight to spread it across the MDF bottom which will all be screwed to the walls and bits.

The one problem with solid is if it is trapped in up against the wall it wouldn't have toom to expand and contract?

The top will be kitchen work top - beach block stuff. We have it in the kitchen and it's been pretty good - some initial problems caused by crap hard wax oil but since I sorted that out god as gold. Doesn't seem to move around too much.

I assume with the MDF Idea i would be making frames out of it with wood edges - a sort of box? If not how would I secure the cross beams to it and hence screw the top to the MDF - or am I just being very thick?

Miles

 

[Chems]

I think you don't need a frame, the torsion box design of the whole thing would be strength enough. I wouldn't use veneered mdf thou I'd rather use veneered ply for extra strength.

 

[matt]

My cabinet supporting 185 ltrs (so 185kg + gravel etc) is 18mm MDF (including the back) face framed. It's basically a box with two additional verticals. All butt joints, glued and screwed. Remember, moisture is not MDF's friend - I'm very careful!

The other thing to remember is that the tank base cannot bend so massive frames add no strength - the key is a smooth and evenly supported level surface (and I mean level - the waterline, if visible, will give away any slacking in this area )

Just found a pic (the shelves are not structural - they're just sitting on pegs):

The bigger picture:

And with the tank on top:

 

[promhandicam]

In terms of strength if you have a look at commercially available aquarium stands you'll see that there isn't much to them - most are 15 or 18mm MFC. 19mm mdf or ply will be more than adequate particularly if you screw a 19mm thick back on it. One thing I've always done - not sure if it is entirely necessary - is to sit the tank on some thin foam. The stuff that is sold as laminate floor underlay is ideal. what you don't want is to have a point load between the base of the tank and the support.

HTH,

Steve

 

[big soft moose]

Remember, moisture is not MDF's friend - I'm very careful!

with that in mind you might be better off with MR MDF (the green stuff)

however i would agree with chems higher up who said that if you were making torsion boxes you ought to use ply rather than mdf - the principle of a torsion box (as explained by mr maskery in we3) is that the plywood skin on the bottom cannot stretch , and therefore the top cannot bow - he demonstrates that by sitting on his outfeed table.

 

[miles_hot]

Remember, moisture is not MDF's friend - I'm very careful!

with that in mind you might be better off with MR MDF (the green stuff)

however i would agree with chems higher up who said that if you were making torsion boxes you ought to use ply rather than mdf - the principle of a torsion box (as explained by mr maskery in we3) is that the plywood skin on the bottom cannot stretch , and therefore the top cannot bow - he demonstrates that by sitting on his outfeed table.

BSM as I understand from Chems' reply above is that the whole unit is acting as a torsion box - I waas rather expecting to have to make each vertical support a Torsion Box however it think that Chems is saying that the sides, bottom and back (and I guess any top support from the top) will act as a Torsion box negating the need to make each vertical a TB.

I will have a crack at a new design using either some thick ply tonight on sketchup. I am still tending towards having some solid timber beams going left to right under the actual tank to keep the tops of the unit together and provide a straight support for the bottom of the tank in case the ply bends slightly - does this feel like over kill or a sensible addition which will not cause any harm even if it doesn't add much (other than somewhere to screw through to secure the top of course).

many thanks

Miles
PS Does anyone have a favourit veneered ply suppliers?
PPS If I'm going to get into veneer how easy is it to inset a pannel of a different veneer (e.g. birds eye maple) or am I getting horribly over ambicious again?

 

[matt]

I'd be tempted to make it out of 18mm board with a single vertical in the centre. You could then create two drawer boxes, once for each side of the vertical, and then attach both to a single drawer front to create the look you've designed.

That said..................... drawers are not that useful when it comes to tank storage - especially if you use an external filter, for example.

And... another thought... Do you have power in this location? You may want to factor in running some power to inside the cupboard (I've used cavity wall boxes for this in the past, providing you leave sufficient clearance behind).

 

[Chems]

I am still tending towards having some solid timber beams going left to right under the actual tank to keep the tops of the unit together and provide a straight support for the bottom of the tank in case the ply bends slightly - does this feel like over kill or a sensible addition which will not cause any harm even if it doesn't add much (other than somewhere to screw through to secure the top of course).

PPS If I'm going to get into veneer how easy is it to inset a pannel of a different veneer (e.g. birds eye maple) or am I getting horribly over ambicious again?

I think adding solid timber is overkill, ply is whats used in houses nowdays for flooring as its so strong rather than floorboards in some new builds. Ply is very strong, I used it for the first time last week to build my outfeed and its much stronger on end than MDF which can bow and pull out of shape with a lot of force applied if not supported laterally properly.


Inlaying into veneered ply would be the same as any other inlay. I bought the trend inlay kit A to do a rose into a top and it worked really well, surprisingly easy you can see it here

 

[promhandicam]

. . . I am still tending towards having some solid timber beams going left to right under the actual tank . . . does this feel like over kill? . . . .

Yes.

This cabinet is for an aquarium weighing double the one you are planning on setting up.

Although an aquarium once full is heavy the load is evenly distributed and so the top can be quite thin as long as it is will supported. As an indication, your aquarium will probably only be made from 6mm glass.

Steve

 

[OPJ]

I think adding solid timber is overkill...

I'd mostly agree with that. The main exception being that you may want to hide the plywood edges with solid timber lippings (don't even think about the iron-on stuff!). :wink:

 

[miles_hot]

OK nearing the completion of the re-design using 18mm Ply with oak edgings. Burning question now is given the riven stone floor should I

1) Put the ply edges straight onto the floor - possibly a scribing nightmare?
2) Put some bearers down to take out the unevenness of the floor - shimmed up with wedges to ensure that they are even
3) Put little feet along the bottom of the ply - say every foot which can be adjusted individually until all level with each other and then rest the ply on these

Many thanks!

Miles

 

[Chems]

If you laid it straight on it may just hover/wobble between 2 high points. Some sort of base like someone did recently for a new floor in there under cupboard area.

 

[miles_hot]

OK, new frame design (sorry Chems I didn't see your response so I will adjust the design to include a frame - at least I will be getting faster at SU!) - do you think that I need timbers under all 4 vertical elements (I suspect so) and then join them with timbers designed no to touch the floor (limiting the amount that I have to mess with wedges and scribing etc?


Points on new frame:
18mm Ply
Lipped with 20mm oak
floor also 18mm Ply with liping
Top secured by two spans of 18mm Ply (front lipped) to ensure that 1) the verticals don't wobble when the top is being out on and 2) there is something other than the top to hold stuff in position and 3) I have something to screw to the top.
Sides scribed to the wall
Top could still be kitchen work top or I could make in from Ply (more than 18mm though I think) with a oak lipping.

Where can I get some decent wood textures to apply? I'd like to see what this would look like in Oak and then with some veneer inlays on the doors (maybe Burr oak or birds eye maple etc.



One of the sides will be a full height cupboard as the filter will take up the full vertical space available - I will need to sort out what else will need to go in there before deciding if all the kit can fit on one side leaving the rest free for storage...

Your thoughts?

Many thanks

Miles

 

[matt]

Where does the tank sit in relation to the uprights? What you wil notice about commercially available stands is that they support the tank evenly.

 

[miles_hot]

Where does the tank sit in relation to the uprights? What you wil notice about commercially available stands is that they support the tank evenly.

The tank nessles into the window and so the left and right walls sit directly above the middle uprights. The back is supported by the rear vertical member (possibly sitting a little in front of the actual member).



In the original frame design the middle left right wooden strut was supporting the front of the tank however this has been removed based on the comments on this thread.

Miles

 

[miles_hot]

As suggested by Chems I am going to have a base in place to put the unit down onto. Scribing 4 bearers to the floor will be a royal pain - I can't see that having a set of feet, say every 12", would be a problem however before I do this I'd like some confirmation

Many thanks

Miles

 

[matt]

As suggested by Chems I am going to have a base in place to put the unit down onto. Scribing 4 bearers to the floor will be a royal pain - I can't see that having a set of feet, say every 12", would be a problem however before I do this I'd like some confirmation

Many thanks

Miles

I had a base in place made from 18mm board, simply screwed together. It was levelled using spacers before having the cabinet placed on top and the plinth front fixed on. Feet should be fine though (a damn site easier to level than using spacers!) Just make sure they can take the weight.

My only other thought... Make sure you position feet at the main load bearing points (i.e. where the weight of the tank is being conveyed down through the verticals of the cabinet). I'd use these ones for levelling too and then use the others to simply kiss the floor.