Workshop Fire Safety - Networked Fire Alarms

[Sideways]

I'm a member of a mailing list on "groups.io", the old yahoo.groups, used by owners of Harrison metalworking lathes to keep in touch and help each other out.

A member of the mailing list recently shared the bad news that he lost his entire workshop including some heavyweight lathes and milling machines, in a sizeable fire. Think 40 firefighters in attendance !
Fortunately he was insured but it is still massively disruptive.

It got me wondering, like probably everyone else, how safe is my own workshop ? what are the biggest risks ? what could I do to improve ?

As my workshop is the garage attached to our house, I realised that one of the obvious things I've overlooked is a smoke / heat alarm with some sort of remote that would sound off inside the house if a fire developed after I had finished and closed up the workshop for the day.

The answer seems to be the newer style smoke alarms that are radio linked so one goes off, all go off.
There are many end user complaints about the types that rely on a 10 year lithium battery only lasting 2 or 3 years in practice, with poor customer service and inadequate guarantees. The cost of remote type alarms is high if they have battery powered but achieve only a short life and not the 10 years claimed. I guess I need alarms that can be mains powered and have replaceable batteries for backup.

I don't want a google smart thing. Just not reliable enough, but I would be very interested in any recommendations please.

Thanks in advance.

 

[niemeyjt]

My immediate thought - prevention is better than cure - so have a look at all sources of potential fire starting. Don't forget spontaneous combustion risks - like rags in bins.

Second - maybe if you can install a sprinkler to give you a head start in extinguishing it.

Then a mains smoke alarm system is good - but even they do have a life and we just replaced ours after 10 years - so make sure you get a main brand which will be around in 10 years - that way to replace just the head not base as well. Link them all up to the house - because priority number one has to be the safe evacuation of you and yours. I am not sure they are linked via radio - I think the signal goes through the wiring. Certainly with ours the upstairs landing one goes off as well when it is supper time. Heat detectors are good as well - just get the right type - I think those for kitchens are designed to trigger with a more rapid rise in temperature.

Do post back what you decide on - will be an interesting thread.

 

[Dabop]

Although there are 'radio' ones out there- I'd stay clear of them- they tend to have rather short ranges (especially if going through multiple walls) the lower the signal, the harder they pull on the battery!!!- wired ones tend to be a LOT easier to set up (especially in attached buildings where you can access the ceilings of each point from the loft lol)

Although it isn't an actual requirement (yet...AFAIK) it is advisable to use the 'red smoke alarm mains cable' rather than just standard mains cable- so it can be identified easily and someone doesn't 'tap into it' later on, plus they are usually 4 core for the 'group alarm' systems (ie Active, Neutral, Earth and Signal/Alarm)

Plus of course, it is best to have them have their own feed from the consumer unit, rather than 'sharing the lights' as was often done with older installs- what happens if it is a faulty light that starts the fire- and kills the power to the lighting circuit????- oops, you just lost everything except the local alarm in there!!!

 

[rob1693]

Aico would be my recommendation I've been installing them for 20 plus years

 

[Sideways]

The aico products look good.
The 3000 series have the mains power with rechargeable lithium backup (upto 6 months) that I am looking for.
They network by hard wiring, and have optional radio module that can be fitted in the detectors to allow them to network by radio (which is much easier as I can't just run wires inside a loft, I would need to go through external walls.
The smoke and heat sensors are available, and together with CO detectors. All the bases covered.

I can't immediately understand whether their gsm gateway module is mandatory to use the radio networking. If so this will rule the brand out. I will not sign up to a service contract for a fire alarm system and don't want a remote system that uses a GSM SIM card for data.
It's understandable that aico want to offer a remote access service that doesn't rely on the householders wifi, but I'm not a customer for that service. I just want the alarms to squawk together.

 

[Agent_zed]

what happens if it is a faulty light that starts the fire- and kills the power to the lighting circuit

Mine have battery backup. Not sure if that still triggers the others on the circuit or not though.

I've got a heat alarm in the garage (attached to house on the side) that is linked into the house ones, so if my garage is merrily burning I know to get out the house.

I posted a while ago about fire extinguishers and there were some interesting ones about, including ones that hang from the ceiling and automatically go off in a fire.

This has reminded me to test my alarms again.

 

[Sideways]

And both the fire mentioned in post #1 and one on UKW from some time ago has got me looking at the Fire Safety Stick extinguishers. 50 and 100 second burn times, open the door, toss one in and leave to suppress the fire are very interesting features.
Italian innovation that has been getting better established here over recent years.

 

[Sideways]

Mine have battery backup. Not sure if that still triggers the others on the circuit or not though.

I've got a heat alarm in the garage (attached to house on the side) that is linked into the house ones, so if my garage is merrily burning I know to get out the house.

I posted a while ago about fire extinguishers and there were some interesting ones about, including ones that hang from the ceiling and automatically go off in a fire.

This has reminded me to test my alarms again.

Which ones do you use and would you recommend ?

 

[Agent_zed]

Which ones do you use and would you recommend ?

Mine are made by Hispec https://www.hispec.co.uk/interconne...echargeable-lithium-battery-backup-1794-p.asp

mine are the older version though so don't know if the new ones will connect, might drop them an email to check as I am planning an extension next year so will want some more. Mine also use 9v square batteries and will warn you if they are low. I assume if the lithium batteries in the new ones fail then you have to replace the entire unit, but that seems pretty common these days.

Don't know whether or not to recommend them as such, they sit there with a green light so hopefully will work when needed. They are En/BS rated so should meet min standards. I also have a separate battery smoke alarm from before I had these that I just have as an extra around the place so I'm covered if these ones aren't great. I'm not overly paranoid about fire but I do have a wood stove in the living room and have a lot of wood and chemicals in the garage so I'd rather have the earliest warning I can.

I do have mine on a separate mcb also, although ideally I guess it should be on an RCBO separate from all the other circuits so if the main RCD goes it doesn't turn them off, but then that's what the battery backup is for in worst case scenario.

 

[Blackswanwood]

And both the fire mentioned in post #1 and one on UKW from some time ago has got me looking at the Fire Stick extinguishers. 50 and 100 second burn times, open the door, toss one in and leave to suppress the fire are very interesting features.
Italian innovation that has been getting better established here over recent years.

They also have a much longer shelf life than other extinguishers

 

[Sideways]

https://firesafetystick.com/

 

[Spectric]

The answer seems to be the newer style smoke alarms that are radio linked so one goes off, all go off.

Go for hardwired, but don't go over the top with expensive fully zoned and monitored systems.

Although it isn't an actual requirement (yet...AFAIK) it is advisable to use the 'red smoke alarm mains cable' rather than just standard mains cable

In commercial installations in the UK it is a requirement to use fire rated cable for both detectors and call points, also all emergency lighting that does not have an internal battery and is powered from a UPS which used to be MICC but now there are many other alternatives from people like Prysmian. For a domestic installation that is not zoned then using mains powered detectors with battery backup and interconnected by hard wiring is your best bet and on it's own circuit which is good practice but not essential with battery backup detectors.

As has been said prevention is always going to be your best solution, better not to have a thermal event than spend a fortune to detect one so look at what could burn and in a woodworking enviroment saw dust and shavings would be what I would look at first, don't let them build up inside machines or gather under benches etc as it was just an accumulation of rubbish that caused Kings cross. For this type of material you want an optical detector that will react to a smouldering fire producing smoke rather than a heat detector as it will trigger before it becomes a burning fire.

 

[Dabop]

Mine are made by Hispec https://www.hispec.co.uk/interconne...echargeable-lithium-battery-backup-1794-p.asp

mine are the older version though so don't know if the new ones will connect, might drop them an email to check as I am planning an extension next year so will want some more. Mine also use 9v square batteries and will warn you if they are low. I assume if the lithium batteries in the new ones fail then you have to replace the entire unit, but that seems pretty common these days.

Don't know whether or not to recommend them as such, they sit there with a green light so hopefully will work when needed. They are En/BS rated so should meet min standards. I also have a separate battery smoke alarm from before I had these that I just have as an extra around the place so I'm covered if these ones aren't great. I'm not overly paranoid about fire but I do have a wood stove in the living room and have a lot of wood and chemicals in the garage so I'd rather have the earliest warning I can.

I do have mine on a separate mcb also, although ideally I guess it should be on an RCBO separate from all the other circuits so if the main RCD goes it doesn't turn them off, but then that's what the battery backup is for in worst case scenario.

Newer installations (or updated consumer units on older installs) require a separate RCD on each circuit, rather than a single one on the entire house so thats not an issue with newer installs lol

One thing that you should be aware of is the new lithium powered ones have a life expectancy of ten years battery life, and must then have the entire unit replaced- but you 'should' be doing that anyway with any of the ionizing or Americium 123 ones (ie the ones with the little radiation symbol on the back) as they become less sensitive with age, and after ten years it is recommended you replace them, as after that point they will no longer reliably detect smoke!!!

'Some' interlinked smoke alarms will trigger all the group on a single circuit on battery power if the mains supply goes out, some will only sound a 'local' alarm at the triggered one- check the manufacturers specs to see what yours do...

 

[Agent_zed]

Newer installations (or updated consumer units on older installs) require a separate RCD on each circuit, rather than a single one on the entire house so thats not an issue with newer installs lol

One thing that you should be aware of is the new lithium powered ones have a life expectancy of ten years battery life, and must then have the entire unit replaced- but you 'should' be doing that anyway with any of the ionizing or Americium 123 ones (ie the ones with the little radiation symbol on the back) as they become less sensitive with age, and after ten years it is recommended you replace them, as after that point they will no longer reliably detect smoke!!!

'Some' interlinked smoke alarms will trigger all the group on a single circuit on battery power if the mains supply goes out, some will only sound a 'local' alarm at the triggered one- check the manufacturers specs to see what yours do...

I actually have a split consumer unit with 2 rcds and 2 MCBs that are not on those RCDs (1 for solar which has it's own separate consumer unit with RCD and 1 that I'm not currently using which I intend to put the rcbo on for the smoke alarms at some point) but thought that might be too much detail.

The Hi-spec smoke alarms I have are optical so not going to be a problem with it not detecting radiation. Although quite possibly just as likely the optical sensors might get worn out/fail at some point, so I guess regular checking is the key in all cases. I've got 3 smoke alarms and 2 heat alarms in the house so hopefully one of them will work if needed.

 

[Dabop]

Optical smoke alarms should be regularly cleaned internally (those 'cans of compressed air' are perfect for the job) because they can (and do) build up dust and other contaminates on the lenses of the optical sensor- especially near cooking areas (not recommended) or if there are smokers in the house...

Without regular cleaning, your optical smoke detectors can be totally insensitive and fail to trigger if smoke is around....

Not a good thing...


example of a 'compressed air' can for cleaning

A can of 'tester' to check afterwards isn't a bad idea either

Not recommending either of these in particular, just the type of thing to look for...