If you like Pedulla and Webbers you may also enjoy Sawyer design. Console table would be among my all-time favourite pieces
Woodworking Youtubers
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Terrytpot
Established Member
Quite like what this guy knocks up and also the actual video production too..no annoying musac or endless drivel..just getting on with it and churning out a solid product
probably because most see through the gimmick. Literally just trying to make as much money as he can off of his audience by pretending like he's qualified to describe a shop need. He's never done anything of note and now his excuse is "well, because I'm so busy helping you guys, I don't get to really working on many nice things that I'd like to make"
is a business that uses the viewers and keeps people in limbo in some kind of odd world of not escaping being a beginner. Cosman and Sellers are are good at that, too- the material doesn't advance and we're left thinking great work is something like drawers that would bind with seasonal change or really square straight stuff with perfect dovetails laid into really fat side stock.
but at least sellers and cosman display some work rather than asserting authority for no reason and constantly saying "i recommend" for sponsored products and items listed in amazon revenue links. it's extremely antisocial with a fake pretend world of a reciprocal relationship. the attention given to it robs many of realistic woodworking progress, which really relies on some self study and finding something you want to make something so well that you'll learn everything about it rather than a passing video here about shellac, and another there about "mpower sharpening", etc.
I wish there was more criticism of it. I've seen Derek mention the same thing I've said here, but more nicely than I say it. It's just farming and audience and youtube loves it, too, because it feeds buying and thus advertising - thus the algorithm favors it. the audience is used like a farm pig, though, except the pig never matures to bacon.
The best videos are actual makers who walk you through a project. My favourite is Timothy Wilmots a farmer/ maker in France ( or Belgium ? ) Unfortunately he has stopped woodworking to concentrate on the farm but he has a workshop to die for and is European based. The ubiquity of American workshops is amazing - they all seem to shop from the same three or four companies.
this point isn't often mentioned enough. what is truly a credible professional approach that amateurs can learn from. it starts with design and the design carries the piece so that good (but not fiddly or overly tedious) execution finishes the job.
the shame is that we don't get to see much professional work at pace so people can get an idea of what they should be done (it's not slapdash as you say, and not getting stuck in the mud making it take 400 hours to make an 80 hour piece. )
those are generally fake workshops. If you manage to get into the shop of a lifetime maker, it isn't made of all things sourced from amazon and drop shipped tool companies, though.
and usually not perfectly clean.
it's humorous to get comments from people who watch the shops that are pretty much product placement with presenters who are very good at making and editing video and manipulating the algorithm...to see them watch a professional in a pro shop and complain that it's messy or they need to upgrade tools to ____.
I guess the interesting thing is it's not hard to come across older and better equipment in the US if you're willing to do the legwork, but a shop full of nothing being sold now isn't great for the YT thing. There are *very* few youtubers who notably make much and who started their channels with the intention of sharing fine making. There are too many gurus telling knobs how to manipulate algorithms, and perhaps the april wilkerson type here who will use a "competitive" advantage to get people to watch them screwing together particle board and 2x4 tool bins until getting at least a little better and attracting sponsors.
definitely a lot of dangerous tools here, and hobbyists aren't exempt from injury, but most of the statistics are made up of unskilled laborers or "helpers" (the term here for unskilled labor positions. tile setter "helper") who get on jobsites and their first assignments after observing something twice are things like trimming wood to a mark or pushing stock across a tablesaw with no fence on it.
I feel bad for the guys who take up jobs like that and end up losing digits or worse because they're not likely to be that interested in the actual job.
the worst workshop injury that I've seen personally among a hobbyist is a guy who nicked his pinkie finger tip off with a jointer. Not even to the point of losing a fingernail, just making the finger below it look funny.
but I've received kickback and know at least two other people who learned about it the hard way as hobbyists.
Oh here we go again D_W. Happy to take pot-shots at plenty of people as usual. Can't we just enjoy YouTube for what it is? Some of it is entertainment, some of it is great education and some is probably neither? I think there are plenty of people out there who are not looking to become expert or world class cabinet makers, they just want to occasionally make something for their home or their garage/workshop and there's plenty of YT content to fulfil that and keeps them happy. Do you watch YT woodworkers? Most would readily admit they are not experts but hobbyists.
Criticising Sellers for his design and 'fat side stock' is hilarious.. the guy has been making furniture for his own home the past 2 years or so, he's clearly making stuff he likes the design of - isn't that the joy of woodworking? Making something for yourself that you like? 500k odd people have subscribed to his channel as well so perhaps they find some learning & inspiration in what he does.
Not everyone will be, wants to be or can become experts
Criticising Sellers for his design and 'fat side stock' is hilarious.. the guy has been making furniture for his own home the past 2 years or so, he's clearly making stuff he likes the design of - isn't that the joy of woodworking? Making something for yourself that you like? 500k odd people have subscribed to his channel as well so perhaps they find some learning & inspiration in what he does.
Not everyone will be, wants to be or can become experts
Youtube is a minefield of all sorts of people, some experienced and work safe whilst others take chances, many adapt working practices that are dubious and others just giving it the sales pitch. Look upon youtube as a source of ideas and inspiration, don't take reviews at face value just make them part of your overall research and then the implementation is down to you, there is no reason to follow a dangerous practice if there is a safer way of achieving the same results because your safety is in your hands, just because someone else is chancing a digit or two does not mean you need to take the same risk. You also have to accept that we are all different and often the same outcome can be achieved by a multitude of methods so we should not critise others if it works for them, some like modern whilst others want traditional. It all goes wrong when someone cannot see that this is not the right way to proceed and looks upto the youtuber as a professional or trade person and blindly follows, now they are at risk from something going wrong so hopefully forums like UKW have helped people get there footings and achieve goals safely.
cosman is the maker of the fat sided drawers. Maybe it's changed. I can't sit through too much of paul seller's work vs. someone like mack headley (which we rarely get to see) because sellers strikes me as a guy catering to beginners and squashing discussion of anything that doesn't come from him.
it's sort of like taking golf lessons from a 20 handicapper who doesn't want anyone to seek other instruction.
that aside, it is my opinion that a lot of people migrate to woodworking because they think they want to make things and at the outset, they have a goal of making nice things. But what they really want to do isn't that. They want to be entertained and feel good from the start, and sometimes making nice things involves intentionally thinking hard and making mistakes to find out what you have to do to do better the next time.
Paul's instruction is made to draw people in, censor the message to only what he provides and to peddle a nonsense "lifestyle woodworking" thing. it feeds what I would refer to as mostly imagining woodworking and what it will be for you rather than the burden of doing woodworking first and then considering what it is after that. if you get deep into making something, all of the lifestyle nonsense will go away.
cosman preceded sellers at a large scale here. he made very tight plain furniture and when I asked him at one point, he said it was easier to find people who wanted to learn how to make what he was selling than it was to find people who wanted to buy what he was selling.
if the intention is to mostly imagine woodworking and want the "golf only with two clubs and no working the ball left or right" like paul likes to teach, that's fine. if someone really wants to see something more accurate like mack headley, it's not.
but realize that two of those guys will try very hard to find you because their first objective is to sell and collect money.
Even both of those guys are miles ahead of stumpy nubs, who has created a false "clean shop" image from the start and intentionally avoided talking about things makers would talk about, because he's probably not much of a maker, and he spends all of his time thinking about how he can get sponsors and revenue links and word things so that you're not inclined to become curious about "wait...where does this all fit in making things".
i don't know a single fine worker who started from cosman or sellers, but I know a huge number of people who have been subscribers for a decade and are still nearly in the same place as they started. Again, if that's the objective and it's entertaining, OK - but admit what it is.
it's always been puzzling to me here that nobody has successfully marketed euro style safety stuff. We have generally nothing or sawstop. what is the in between? I don't know. I think it's not by chance that I know people who mostly have never gotten their fingers in a tablesaw because they aren't forced to work at a faced pace on a tuesday with a business running in the red.
but I don't think it's by chance that despite that, finding people who have experienced a kickback (a hard one in my case, but fortunately nothing but bruises) is common.
with a fence design that doesn't pinch the work, it wouldn't happen. The guy who got me into woodworking stubbornly still uses a bies style fence and no guard (and he's english!) - kickback made one of his hands purple and almost pulled his hand into a spinning blade. Mine was a larger thinner panel that also twisted my hand toward a blade, but fortunately, never that close. How it moved my hand toward the blade without me being able to react to even know it, and not realizing it until afterwards, though - scary.
(I started for the first three or so years wanting everything to be entertaining and immediate success - my comments above aren't intended to convey that I didn't go through the same thing.
it's definitely the case that it was very awkward to try to sort through all of the different "teachers' methods" and put them to efficient use. Especially since some of them conflict with each other and when you're starting, it creates indecision.
there really wasn't much in terms of people pointing someone like me toward "ok, how do we move on from here". One person pushed me a little bit and then that was all it took to be much better as maker and get a better sense of where to direct efforts and where not to.
Too, with things, there's a sense while you're in that mode where you listen to Cosman and Cosman refers to something that Charlesworth does and you start to get the idea that they are somehow esteemed makers. Like if you had something very complex or fine, you'd take it to them for a bid.
Charlesworth was, to me, an esteemed teacher. I got his videos and had success right away with each method and didn't feel like someone was checking my bank account at the same time they were relaying something. I think being able to call someone an esteemed teacher is a *high* compliment. there wasn't a lack of fineness in anything taught, just a lack of speed moving on from there - but if we're pushed to move up a level or four, we'll find that out of need.
If we're told that there are no levels above level one, then that's dishonest, but David didn't do that and when I asked him at one point "if you're doing more work by hand, it's possible to do this accurately with far fewer steps and greater efficiency if a sense of what's working and what isn't is developed". He was bluntly honest and said that he teaches methods that beginners will find success with.
I get what he meant. it didn't mean "these are all beginner's methods" like playing hot cross buns on the flute, it's that some may be, and some are not, but the methods themselves need to test well with someone coming to learn woodworking.
what percent of people do I believe would want to go from being able to learn fine methods to sort of owning them themselves and moving on and really developing self based on results? I would guess 5%. what we will see then is the 95% who don't see that step as relaxing or worthwhile to them. And that 95% is the group marketed to.
David did also say that the idea of working rough lumber by hand was "insanity". it's not really, but I get where he's coming from. if it's not interesting, then getting to the point where it seems interesting won't be developed, and there's a chance that even if one develops it, it still won't be interesting.
when I work only fitting and finishing and skip the rough work and the sensation and the learning that it provides, I have trouble staying interested. I hope that in retirement, i can become a fine maker and not "just a good at some things hobbyist". Without personal exposure to some fine makers, it wouldn't have happened.
and had I petered out after the entertaining phase, that would've been OK, too. I was in a cover band in high school. we were pretty good. I always had wishes of becoming a much better guitarist, but never really doubled down on it - it's different than woodworking. it used to bother me that i was such a fat fingered lump while I saw other people improving, but the reality is I may not have the talent in the first place, but I also never put in the sweat to figure out what good players actually do. it's different than the first two years of guitar lessons and some of the things aren't that interesting (like learning to play not just a piece, but noiseless in terms of foreign sounds.
I know the people who want to be entertained don't like these kinds of discussions. it seems like an assault. it's not. the person who pushed me kind of made me uncomfortable when they asked for my phone number and called and said "you can do better". I was first kind of feeling that it was harsh to have someone flatly say that to a guy who was very slowly improving, and then the next part was "I can see that you can do better". that's a burden. it was hard to fix what I was making and post a follow up because I was so afraid i would have to face that I was a lump of crap who didn't want the burden.
I don't think David C ultimately cared much for my pushing on this topic, either, especially if it came to disagreement. I doubt he would've been able to name me, though. And I liked him a whole lot and still do. I remember telling him "I like you whether you like it or not. you can't stop it".
it's definitely the case that it was very awkward to try to sort through all of the different "teachers' methods" and put them to efficient use. Especially since some of them conflict with each other and when you're starting, it creates indecision.
there really wasn't much in terms of people pointing someone like me toward "ok, how do we move on from here". One person pushed me a little bit and then that was all it took to be much better as maker and get a better sense of where to direct efforts and where not to.
Too, with things, there's a sense while you're in that mode where you listen to Cosman and Cosman refers to something that Charlesworth does and you start to get the idea that they are somehow esteemed makers. Like if you had something very complex or fine, you'd take it to them for a bid.
Charlesworth was, to me, an esteemed teacher. I got his videos and had success right away with each method and didn't feel like someone was checking my bank account at the same time they were relaying something. I think being able to call someone an esteemed teacher is a *high* compliment. there wasn't a lack of fineness in anything taught, just a lack of speed moving on from there - but if we're pushed to move up a level or four, we'll find that out of need.
If we're told that there are no levels above level one, then that's dishonest, but David didn't do that and when I asked him at one point "if you're doing more work by hand, it's possible to do this accurately with far fewer steps and greater efficiency if a sense of what's working and what isn't is developed". He was bluntly honest and said that he teaches methods that beginners will find success with.
I get what he meant. it didn't mean "these are all beginner's methods" like playing hot cross buns on the flute, it's that some may be, and some are not, but the methods themselves need to test well with someone coming to learn woodworking.
what percent of people do I believe would want to go from being able to learn fine methods to sort of owning them themselves and moving on and really developing self based on results? I would guess 5%. what we will see then is the 95% who don't see that step as relaxing or worthwhile to them. And that 95% is the group marketed to.
David did also say that the idea of working rough lumber by hand was "insanity". it's not really, but I get where he's coming from. if it's not interesting, then getting to the point where it seems interesting won't be developed, and there's a chance that even if one develops it, it still won't be interesting.
when I work only fitting and finishing and skip the rough work and the sensation and the learning that it provides, I have trouble staying interested. I hope that in retirement, i can become a fine maker and not "just a good at some things hobbyist". Without personal exposure to some fine makers, it wouldn't have happened.
and had I petered out after the entertaining phase, that would've been OK, too. I was in a cover band in high school. we were pretty good. I always had wishes of becoming a much better guitarist, but never really doubled down on it - it's different than woodworking. it used to bother me that i was such a fat fingered lump while I saw other people improving, but the reality is I may not have the talent in the first place, but I also never put in the sweat to figure out what good players actually do. it's different than the first two years of guitar lessons and some of the things aren't that interesting (like learning to play not just a piece, but noiseless in terms of foreign sounds.
I know the people who want to be entertained don't like these kinds of discussions. it seems like an assault. it's not. the person who pushed me kind of made me uncomfortable when they asked for my phone number and called and said "you can do better". I was first kind of feeling that it was harsh to have someone flatly say that to a guy who was very slowly improving, and then the next part was "I can see that you can do better". that's a burden. it was hard to fix what I was making and post a follow up because I was so afraid i would have to face that I was a lump of crap who didn't want the burden.
I don't think David C ultimately cared much for my pushing on this topic, either, especially if it came to disagreement. I doubt he would've been able to name me, though. And I liked him a whole lot and still do. I remember telling him "I like you whether you like it or not. you can't stop it".
sams93
Established Member
I recently had Jason Hibbs (Bourbon Moth Woodworking) over to visit after winning a competition on his youtube and we built a bed. Was genuinely a really fun experience, my tiny workshop (shed) was a real difference to the american setup.
I was really interested to know how much was 'put on' for the purposes of youtube - can honestly say that the answer is nothing. Genuine a person as you'll meet. I was also surprised (in a good way) about how non-scripted everything was. I was expecting to have a lot of 'we need to get shots of x y z' or having to repeat things for purposes of the camera. It really wasn't like that at all, just built a project and had the camera running whenever the opportunity arose. I think these people have a real knack for editing things together in a digestible format.
Agree that youtube woodworking isn't for everyone, some channels are light hearted and just fun, some people do some amazing instruction-style videos on techniques etc. I always found the bourbon moth stuff to be a nice mix and easy to watch for entertainment and ideas really. It's more so on the light hearted side of things.
I'm really grateful for youtube woodworking creators and contributors simply for giving me inspiration to try and have a go at making things from wood, and also to see other people make mistakes and work through problems which I can identify with.
I was really interested to know how much was 'put on' for the purposes of youtube - can honestly say that the answer is nothing. Genuine a person as you'll meet. I was also surprised (in a good way) about how non-scripted everything was. I was expecting to have a lot of 'we need to get shots of x y z' or having to repeat things for purposes of the camera. It really wasn't like that at all, just built a project and had the camera running whenever the opportunity arose. I think these people have a real knack for editing things together in a digestible format.
Agree that youtube woodworking isn't for everyone, some channels are light hearted and just fun, some people do some amazing instruction-style videos on techniques etc. I always found the bourbon moth stuff to be a nice mix and easy to watch for entertainment and ideas really. It's more so on the light hearted side of things.
I'm really grateful for youtube woodworking creators and contributors simply for giving me inspiration to try and have a go at making things from wood, and also to see other people make mistakes and work through problems which I can identify with.
My list contains all of your list except Cosmas Bauer so I'm going to look at that - after I wind up my Spanish nephew.
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Seemingly the Sawstop machines have made things worse from what I've seen.
It's evolved into safe habits being completely ignored.
I consider Cosman's work credible,
but he's clearly not too bothered about his followers,
and would seemingly rather folks not to be scared of their old machines, which can likely be bought very cheap nowadays, i.e unisaws or something without a RK.
He has a holier than thou attitude, which leads to accidents,
one fella mentioned having a recent accident on the Cosman show, and he was like ...it wouldn't have happened to me, or some other such condescending nonsense,
but yet he's triggered his SS with his hand.
One could make excuses that his channel is tailored to comfortably retired folks who
can afford a SS, yet I've never heard even a hint of...
Dismantle the motor and dump those old knifeless machines in the trash,
Not that anyone would do this, but no poo pooing on those stupidly built machines.
A good comment which sums it up, maybe something like....
If your getting tips from someone who has a Sawstop,
then you'd better get one aswell!
I'm sure you guys smarter than me could come up with something much better.
No effort on any makers channel overseas, even suggests the way things are done
across the water.
Cosman and anyone else who's providing tutor-age,
has a duty to at least explain their reasoning to work like such,
regardless of what machine they've got.
The closest to this info I've found has been from the woodworking group in Gwinnett.
I doubt these videos are seen by the majority.
It's pure rotten that so many folks think a little short and low shoe style stick is appropriate for everything,
Even when you suggest or give a link the UK HSE articles, mention how absolutely mental the reported statistics are concerning circular saw accidents (on average 60,000 reported accidents per anim until few years ago)
and mention some good folks videos who practice safe use of the machine
like Roy Sutton.
Rob himself has mentioned a 450mm pushstick seems silly,
and the sheep will follow.
I think a comment like I suggested could be the kryptonite which would pierce the armor of ignorance in which these people have over their eyes, as the problem seemingly lies no longer in badly designed machines, and the logistical attitude which is understandable with such affordable equipment,
but the fact the majority of folks who disagree until the death are trying to defend
their master,
and should it have been that tutors had no opinion, or made clear certain things like relying on such electrickery,
Then these loyal subjects wouldn't likely be able to give any reasoning for dismissing the HSE's advice.
I'm off to post my comment, now I've thunka somethin.
It's evolved into safe habits being completely ignored.
I consider Cosman's work credible,
but he's clearly not too bothered about his followers,
and would seemingly rather folks not to be scared of their old machines, which can likely be bought very cheap nowadays, i.e unisaws or something without a RK.
He has a holier than thou attitude, which leads to accidents,
one fella mentioned having a recent accident on the Cosman show, and he was like ...it wouldn't have happened to me, or some other such condescending nonsense,
but yet he's triggered his SS with his hand.
One could make excuses that his channel is tailored to comfortably retired folks who
can afford a SS, yet I've never heard even a hint of...
Dismantle the motor and dump those old knifeless machines in the trash,
Not that anyone would do this, but no poo pooing on those stupidly built machines.
A good comment which sums it up, maybe something like....
If your getting tips from someone who has a Sawstop,
then you'd better get one aswell!
I'm sure you guys smarter than me could come up with something much better.
No effort on any makers channel overseas, even suggests the way things are done
across the water.
Cosman and anyone else who's providing tutor-age,
has a duty to at least explain their reasoning to work like such,
regardless of what machine they've got.
The closest to this info I've found has been from the woodworking group in Gwinnett.
I doubt these videos are seen by the majority.
It's pure rotten that so many folks think a little short and low shoe style stick is appropriate for everything,
Even when you suggest or give a link the UK HSE articles, mention how absolutely mental the reported statistics are concerning circular saw accidents (on average 60,000 reported accidents per anim until few years ago)
and mention some good folks videos who practice safe use of the machine
like Roy Sutton.
Rob himself has mentioned a 450mm pushstick seems silly,
and the sheep will follow.
I think a comment like I suggested could be the kryptonite which would pierce the armor of ignorance in which these people have over their eyes, as the problem seemingly lies no longer in badly designed machines, and the logistical attitude which is understandable with such affordable equipment,
but the fact the majority of folks who disagree until the death are trying to defend
their master,
and should it have been that tutors had no opinion, or made clear certain things like relying on such electrickery,
Then these loyal subjects wouldn't likely be able to give any reasoning for dismissing the HSE's advice.
I'm off to post my comment, now I've thunka somethin.
thetyreman
Established Member
it's not just sellers, he will occasionally bash other people here too including myself, after showing my krenov style high angle plane, his response what 'it needs a handle' and that krenov was just an old fool e.t.c and wouldn't accept that I can get a better surface on figured woods than any standard bailey plane, then proceeded to write a 200,000 word novel about how to set up the cap iron and simultaniously blaming me for not setting up my regular planes properly, no apology for it and no respect at all for other peoples opinions, talks to you like you're an i-diot, even when you know what you're doing.
thetyreman
Established Member
I shouldn't laugh but that gold hand was very entertaining.
matkinitice
Established Member
- Joined
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Oh I actually watched this a few weeks back. I don't follow the bloke but this was a really good video, just decent entertainment. The bed turned out nice too.
Hew and Awe. British guy, beautifully made low key videos and a great series on the restoration of a wadkin table saw.
Andy Rawls is a Texan furniture maker who is really watchable and knows what he is talking about.
Andy Rawls is a Texan furniture maker who is really watchable and knows what he is talking about.
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