Won't somebody think of "young people"? (Edit: and No, older people aren't "to blame")

[RobinBHM]

As I say, in a few years we will have much more accurate data and it will almost certainly show that C19 is less deadly than flu

I see you persist in repeating the same misinformation.

There has been massive intervention to reduce infection spread of Covid.
Millions of people have been shielding, millions have taken considerable efforts to reduce risk of infection.

You cannot compare deaths from Covid that occurred DESPITE massive intervention with any other metric.

Please can you explain why you continue to repeat the same lie?

 

[Rorschach]

I see you persist in repeating the same misinformation.

There has been massive intervention to reduce infection spread of Covid.
Millions of people have been shielding, millions have taken considerable efforts to reduce risk of infection.

You cannot compare deaths from Covid that occurred DESPITE massive intervention with any other metric.

Please can you explain why you continue to repeat the same lie?

Intervention to reduce spread does nothing to reduce the case fatality rate.

 

[RobinBHM]

As I say, in a few years we will have much more accurate data and it will almost certainly show that C19 is less deadly than flu, or possibly comparable

Covid has kilked around 700 healthcare workers UK
Covid has killed many many essential workers in UK
Covid has filled hospitals and nurses and doctors are struggling to cope
Covid has left many people with severe long term health issues.

Only a person not paying attention or being deliberately dishonest still believes Covid is no worse than flu.
Which are you?

 

[Rorschach]

Covid has kilked around 700 healthcare workers UK
Covid has killed many many essential workers in UK
Covid has filled hospitals and nurses and doctors are struggling to cope
Covid has left many people with severe long term health issues.

Only a person not paying attention or being deliberately dishonest still believes Covid is no worse than flu.
Which are you?

As you love to say STRAWMAN! lol
The number of people you mention there killed by C19 has nothing to do with how deadly it is compared to flu and you know it.

Anyway you should probably move any criticism to the other thread, it's not fair on the OP.

 

[Jelly]

It was interesting hear Mark Carney's take on this subject recently in the Reith Lectures.

Those have been excellent, even by Reith Lectures standards with quite nuanced viewpoints you hear broadcast all too rarely these days.

 

[RobinBHM]

Intervention to reduce spread does nothing to reduce the case fatality rate.

Yes it does.

Vulnerable people have been shielding and are thus at lower risk of exposure.

Therefore more Covid tests returned positive will be younger people that have a massively lower fatality rate.

Why don't you understand that?

 

[RobinBHM]

The number of people you mention there killed by C19 has nothing to do with how deadly it is compared to flu

Yes it does, it has everything to do with comparisons with flu.
Please stop lying.

 

[Rorschach]

Yes it does.

Vulnerable people have been shielding and are thus at lower risk of exposure.

Therefore more Covid tests returned positive will be younger people that have a massively lower fatality rate.

Why don't you understand that?

Oh dear. I think I am just going to have to stop replying to your nonsensical arguments. It would be ok if you were entertaining like rafezetter but you aren't.

My apologies to Jelly for the thread drift, I won't reply on this topic again as it will just cause trouble.

 

[doctor Bob]

Just to get the thread back on track.

It's never too late Jelly, I was 33 before I knew what I wanted to do properly. It's all turned out alright.
Honestly my adice is chill a bit more about life, try and make the most of it. I could have done better without doubt, I nearly borrowed £600,000 a few years ago to expand the business, take on more staff, open big swanky showroom, buy a commercial lease etc etc then you think about extra stress, the worry, the agro from staff, more projects to manage and it's not worth it.

If you think life is unfair for the young, well at least you are all in the same boat. Maybe no consolation but maybe a consideration that it's not you on your todd, which is how I felt at 33.

 

[Jelly]

Just to get the thread back on track.

Thanks Bob!

It's never too late Jelly, I was 33 before I knew what I wanted to do properly. It's all turned out alright.
Honestly my adice is chill a bit more about life, try and make the most of it.

I'm very calm about most things in life, (I doubt I will ever be "chill" though, I think the ADD ensures I'm always going to be a very driven person, whether I like it or not), and for the most part life is turning out pretty well these days.

But, I'm not ashamed to admit that I've been extremely lucky that things have turned out well, sure I've put in hard graft, made tough choices and all the other "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" cliches...

But, I know dozens of people just like me, all equally worthy individuals who are still struggling to attain the basic security that lets you really appreciate the good things in life.

Seeing (and empathising strongly with) that unnecessary, harsh and capricious social inequality; whilst increasingky seeing that it's predominantly been caused by short term thinking on the behalf of a series of equally (but differently) dismal politicians, really boils my blood.

Which is why I'm so passionate about some of these issues, in a more intense kind of way that is wholly normal for me.

I could have done better without doubt, I nearly borrowed £600,000 a few years ago to expand the business, take on more staff, open big swanky showroom, buy a commercial lease etc etc then you think about extra stress, the worry, the agro from staff, more projects to manage and it's not worth it.

Right about now that's looking like excellent foresight!

I'm aware of a number of highly geared businesses which were on a strong growth path until recently, where life is currently proving very stressful indeed for the management, and I don't doubt some of them will unfortunately become veritable Icarus's, whilst others will make it though all the while leaving their MD's looking like the portrait of Dorian Gray into the bargain

None of it seems awful pleasant!

If you think life is unfair for the young, well at least you are all in the same boat. Maybe no consolation but maybe a consideration that it's not you on your todd, which is how I felt at 33.

There is that, I definitely get the impression that there's a certain sense of solidarity that some of my older colleagues weren't fortunate enough to have at my time in life.

But then as I said, I've been lucky and I know it, so it could just be me being fortunate again.

 

[D_W]

Personally think rent should be capt at X of market value as we've now reached the point of stupidity where renters affectively buy houses for people who can afford a deposit because rent costs more than mortgage repayments

In places where property values aren't bonkers here, that's effectively all rent. Rent pays the mortgage and fees and if it didn't, nobody would rent their properties. The high cost of living accommodations is due to increasingly thick layers of building codes, zoning and moratoriums on development of open land for more property.

The attempt on the latter is to get yuppies to redo downtrodden areas, and when they do, they seem to build even more expensive properties and push the urban residents to a different area.

 

[D_W]

Thinking further about this (outside of covid where it's just used as a crowbar), I'd like to compare things using figures from here (vs. there).

In the 1950s and 1960s, a typical house in the US cost about 2x a buyer's salary. I don't know if this was median or mean
By the time the last real estate explosion was done (just prior to 2008), the average home price was 7-11x the annual salary of the buyer.

I stuck with a house that was 2x when I bought mine because I have a fear of running out of money (just due to upbringing). I'd rather be ashamed of my house a couple of times than be out of money, or car or whatever.

At the same time in the 1950s or 1960s, you could get a job at the elevator factory in town for more than the annual average earnings - not right away, but the apprenticeship program at the (union) factory paid more than the average job itself, so you wouldn't starve the first couple of years. That factory is relocated and closed now. But the town is littered with retirees from it who earned well and retired early. If they're smart, they live in the 2x salary house.

What is an equivalent for everyone now? If the notion is that nobody works hard, that's just inaccurate. Some people don't and the message to kids is more complex. College is more expensive (my dad's first job paid 1.5 times his college cost - one year of salary vs. all 4 years of college). My job was just under 1 times college cost. Now, that figure for a good job is 3-4x for public colleges. My parents paid for my college and I'm going to do my best to pay for my kids' college if they have something gainful they want to learn (no humanities degrees unless they think they're going to be a professor - well rounded and incapable of anything economically gainful makes no sense to me).

When my wife got into her profession (physical therapy), the education requirement was going from bachelor's degree to that plus 2 year masters program. Now it's 3 years after bachelors, but salaries haven't changed a whole lot. The job is far more complicated than it was 20 years ago thanks to economic and documentation requirements.

It's possible to live better now than anyone has ever lived probably in the history of man, but the barriers to entry are also greater than they've ever been at any time after the industrial revolution (prior to that, what would you invest in, anyway? fraud was rampant here in the states in the gilded age and only the wealthy had access to legitimate investment in anything other than property).

We also have "experts" around everywhere who can tell you that any profitable profession is unethical and you'll be taking advantage of someone else if you do it. Apparently blogging opinions and selling ads to do that isn't unethical, but whatever.

It's not much of a surprise to me that if someone doesn't know exactly what they want to do, the idea of buying a house that they'll never really pay off (but will get to pay to repair in the interim), etc, doesn't look at that attractive. Even typical contractor jobs here (subs, etc), require licensing and harassments that was never present 30 years ago. The people crying loudly about income inequity and complaining about "Big business" are chief in charge of the things that make it hard for the average person to create a business in the first place.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

In the 50 years since I left school much has changed.

Houses cost more, but are generally much better equipped. Household income spent on food has declined, as has the cost of travel. What we spend our money on has changed - media, smartphones, computers, travel, consumer durables etc either didn't exist 50 years ago or have grown in ownership whilst unit costs have fallen.

Employment and jobs have changed - mining, steel, secretarial and manufacturing jobs have largely gone. IT, media, games, marketing, health and safety, gym subscriptions etc have replaced them.

In a macro sense we are much better off. C19 aside, the loss of employment has been more than offset by new opportunities.

The only thing remaining relatively unchanged is that most people spend most of what they earn. Only the points of stress have changed.

There may be an argument to rebalance the the way stresses impact different age or other groups. But the broad proposition that older folk who have worked for (say) 40 years should be able to enjoy the fruits of their labours remains unchanged.

 

[billw]

I think @doctor Bob has pretty much hit the nail on the head, certainly I have been a LOT happier (well, ignoring the long-term Cilatopram prescription ) since I effectively quit the rat race and stopped obsessing about material possessions. Life's about the experience, and I think gen Z seem to be going down this path too, which is all the better for them mentally.

Of course one of the reasons they like experiences rather than possessions is that hardly any of them have a house in which to put any possessions.

 

[RobinBHM]

I've noticed in recent years an awful lot of 20 somethings driving around in nearly new cars, often a Merc or BMW.

I have heard anecdotally that young people that see house buying so far from reality that they don't bother, stay living with parents and spend on things like cars....with the super cheap finance that's been around.

 

[Amateur]

Observations

I find it difficult to define, YOUNG today.

All I can see is opportunity at every turn.
Maybe that's because I'm old?
The guidance isn't there today I will say that.
Maybe that's the problem enlightenment?
But will they listen?

Be blowed if I'd pay uni fees and then spend it in the pub or a year or two back packing.

I'd be badgering any engineering company to sponsor me, or a supermarket, or a civil engineering company.....roads and bridges the way to go right?
But there are loads of FT 100 companies out there.
I'd pick the right course for the job I wanted, a degree the employers want.
I'd work three days a week because lectures are only two days a week. Course work at weekends or at night.
I'd pick a uni I could travel daily to and live at home to save money.
And I'd save.
I'd eventually move north and buy a home.
Then a bigger house.

If I picked the wrong job?
Tough. I stuck an apprenticeship for 6 years hated every minute but if held me in good stead whatever I did.
So I'd stick at it. Head down stuck in.


Don't go hiding behind I was a late developer, or I didn't know what I wanted at 30.
It just doesn't rub. Get stuck in.


So this is my plan
Might sound a load of rubbish to you.
But its a plan and without a plan you will only look back when your old and say,
If Only, I wish that I'd..........If I'd only........

 

[doctor Bob]

Observations

I find it difficult to define, YOUNG today.

All I can see is opportunity at every turn.
Maybe that's because I'm old?
The guidance isn't there today I will say that.
Maybe that's the problem enlightenment?
But will they listen?

Be blowed if I'd pay uni fees and then spend it in the pub or a year or two back packing.

I'd be badgering any engineering company to sponsor me, or a supermarket, or a civil engineering company.....roads and bridges the way to go right?
But there are loads of FT 100 companies out there.
I'd pick the right course for the job I wanted, a degree the employers want.
I'd work three days a week because lectures are only two days a week. Course work at weekends or at night.
I'd pick a uni I could travel daily to and live at home to save money.
And I'd save.
I'd eventually move north and buy a home.
Then a bigger house.

If I picked the wrong job?
Tough. I stuck an apprenticeship for 6 years hated every minute but if held me in good stead whatever I did.
So I'd stick at it. Head down stuck in.


Don't go hiding behind I was a late developer, or I didn't know what I wanted at 30.
It just doesn't rub. Get stuck in.


So this is my plan
Might sound a load of rubbish to you.
But its a plan and without a plan you will only look back when your old and say,
If Only, I wish that I'd..........If I'd only........

I was a late developer, I've done great in life. I've hated jobs and stuck with them, I should never have done this, life is for happiness not detesting every minute to prove a point.
I went to Austrailia for 2 years and still 30 years later think wow, 2 years in the outback best experience of my life.

I say if you are young, just have the time of your life, grow up later in life. Fun and happiness are everything.

 

[Amateur]

I've got to say that's a load of rubbish. I was a late developer, I've done great in life. I've hated jobs and stuck with them, I should never have done this, life is for happiness not detesting every minute to prove a point.
I went to Austrailia for 2 years and still 30 years later think wow, 2 years in the outback best experience of my life.

I say if you are young, just have the time of your life, grow up later in life. Fun and happiness are everything.

And that's your view which I respect, but I don't agree with it either.
Today's people may not not be so lucky as you were, which is one of the reasons for so much hostility with older people.

PS I said you might think its a load of rubbish near the end.

 

[doctor Bob]

.....................which is one of the reasons for so much hostility with older people.

I am probably lucky, but I just don't ever see this.
It's been mentioned before but all my sons mates are good funny kids, all the football kids are sound, all my young lads at work are pleasant.
I see it on the news but in real life (my life) I don't see it.

P.S. yes I have been lucky with my work later in life, I don't think if you saw my life as a whole you'd describe it as lucky.

 

[Droogs]

There are 3 things I have learned the most about my life:
Most of the people I meet don't actually believe I have seen and done the things I have seen and done
Most of them will never have the opportunity to experience even half of them
Most of all, I would not change a thing