Winter Fuel Allowance

[StevieB]

This was before WFA, and you have no chance of getting a decent state pension off this or any other government, why the heck do you think that they want to put the retirement age up and up, so that they pay out less and less. If they get their way your retirement will be the day you die.

Cheers

Mike

And there was me thinking it was because we were all living longer and therefore costing more. Never realised it was all a government conspiracy to make money!

Steve

 

[Walter Hall]

I am a recipient of WFA, free bus pass, reduced admission prices pretty much everywhere etc. etc. but, thankfully, don't need this kind of assistance and believe that it should not be given to me or my kind.

All Government handouts of taxpayers money (and borrowings) should morally be subject to means testing with only the needy benefiting. Yes, there are, and will be, abusers but these are comparatively few and really should be largely sorted by good means testing and policing of same.
Richard

Couldn't agree more. I am not yet in receipt of these benefits having taken early retirement but I have no need of them. Paying me WFA would be a waste of taxpayers money that could be better spent on those who need it.

In a similar vein does a stockbroker (for example) with a seven figure income and six kids need child benefit or whatever it is called these days.

Oh, and as a final point, the abolition of WFA is nothing more than media speculation. No such announcement has been made or will be until after the spending review.

 

[big soft moose]

Which is an admirable sentiment, but ignores the reality that to means test everyone costs more than the allowance for those that don't need it in the first place. You need to send out forms, provide a helpline for people to fill them in, check them, decide on the outcome, have fraud measures in place, have call centre staff to help and so on.

as things stand you are right , but the govt/civil service lacks the ability to think outside the box

surely the easiest way to means test anything is through the revenue service as they already know what anyone who is earning is being paid , because they are charging tax on it.

and if someone is not paying tax because the state pension or jsa is their only income then the department admistering those benefits already knows that too.

there is no need to collect the information yet again (probably in triplicate an unnecessarly complex forms) then pay a squadron of civil service drones to process it , when the necessesary info is already in the hands (or computers) of other govt depts

 

[RogerS]

Understand your logic BM but I don't think it is as simple as that. For starters, isn't there a gap between what you receive in state pension and what the threshold is before you start paying tax? Or any one just starting retirement then HRMC have no idea what their income is until they fill in the next tax form.

 

[jpt]

A chap on our local radio said the same thing as BSM the other day all those paying the 40% tax should not get the automatic handouts, these include WFA, bus pass, DLA etc. Apparently that would save the amount they are talking about and if anyone in that bracket wanted the handout they would have to apply for it and be means tested etc.

john

 

[Dibs-h]

Understand your logic BM but I don't think it is as simple as that. For starters, isn't there a gap between what you receive in state pension and what the threshold is before you start paying tax? Or any one just starting retirement then HRMC have no idea what their income is until they fill in the next tax form.

Rog - in some instances it is as simple as that. When sending out WFA for instance it would be a piece of piss to exclude every relevant person who has a taxable income over £30k for instance. Dealing with a small fraction of folk who may just be retiring etc. would be easily offset by the large savings.

Take Tax Credits - administered by HMRC, paid for by HMRC, it doesn't take genius for the system to adjust tax codes instead of making BACS payments, in a fully automated fashion - slashing costs involved in dealing with the vast majority of folk.

But to be honest when most of these Whitehall IT projects reek of cronyism - common sense probably isn't in the ITT docs.

Dibs

 

[RogerS]

.....

But to be honest when most of these Whitehall IT projects reek of cronyism - common sense probably isn't in the ITT docs.

Dibs

Never cronyism in my experience but naive purchasing/inadequate spec/functionality creep plus the fact that they have to have a cast-iron reason for not going for the cheapest price...and suppliers know that but equally know that they can then screw them for every little last change request. Plus many Whitehall IT depts have outsourced or have very little in the way of competent internal people who can actually make a realistic assessment of (a) any contractors that they hire in or (b) suppliers tenders.

Then you have ministerial interference....viz...."Bliar Blair - How long will this new NHS thing take? Five years said the experts. Too long said Bliar..I want it done in two. Can anyone do it?"

"me..me..me.." said the plonker they recruited to manage the project (and who has subsequently failed to deliver as we all know)

 

[Peter T]

surely the easiest way to means test anything is through the revenue service as they already know what anyone who is earning is being paid , because they are charging tax on it.

Not so, I'm afraid. HMRC issues you with a tax code. It's then up to you to pay the correct amount of tax.

So, if you are on PAYE, your employer deducts tax from your wages/salary for you. If you are self employed you hire an accountant or pay it yourself. If you have a private pension, the pension company deducts the tax.

I found this out last year when we were trying to wind up my late father-in-law's estate. We knew the estate was due a refund on the income tax he had paid that year but when we contacted HMRC the first thing they asked was "How much tax has been paid?". To which I replied "Well, you collect so you should know."

I was then given the above lecture about them not collecting it but us paying it. We then had to contact his pension provider to get a statement of pay and tax deducted.

 

[Benchwayze]

I can't argue with that.

Roy.

I can.
and why?

Because I (and my contemporaries) didn't get this country into the mess it's in. I never borrowed more than I could afford to repay.

The Merchant Bankers and the Politicians caused this 'shortfall' and they are still doing it.

I can snap my fingers and get a loan if I wish. Why? Because I am a 'Good Bet'. As for the politicians? The Government is still wasting billions on killing our young men and women in the Middle East. If in my 'confused mental state', I mix up my rubbish, the bin-men won't even take my refuse away. My God though if I didn't pay my Council Tax, the Local Authority would be quick enough taking that from my Bank Account.

Let's get things straight and place the blame where it belongs.

NMTBS on this from me.

John :evil:

 

[MIGNAL]

There's always a third way (oops). Pay it back or 'opt out' - perhaps that isn't allowed and if it was we might need a whole plethora of admin workers to process the 3 people that chose to do so.
Just a thought.

 

[Digit]

I'm sorry John but I can't see that agreeing with what Richard says in anyway disagrees with what you have said, with which I also agree.
Like you I have always lived within my means and am regularly accosted on the idea that I could be much happier if I took out a loan with such and such a company.
But I see no objection to means testing benefits, if nothing else that would free sums for those in genuine need of help.
The very idea of living on benefits as a life choice I personally find morally repugnant.

Roy.

 

[Benchwayze]

This country is up to its ears in debt and although the annual budget deficit may be reduced in this and ensuing years it will be many, many years before any inroads are made on the National Debt currently standiing at about £750 billion. What right have we to pass the debt onto our children, grandchildren and beyond? None, thats what! Cuts, and massive ones have to be made.




We all know that cuts are necessary and also where many of them should fall. It is time for all organisations and individuals to lose the NIMBY attitude and make a contribution for the sake of our descendants.

Richard

Roy,


The bit I coloured dark blue, is what I can argue with, ( in some areas) and for the reasons I gave..

I refuse to take the blame for something that I didn't cause directly, even though I will still have to help foot the bill. I doubt very much I am alone in this view.

As for the WFA, I am sure the powers that be, would say I don't need it. But I am entitled to it, and I use as to help pay the WFB. This last Winter, in an effort to cut down my WFB, I was 'stingy' with the heating. Result? Frost-nip from the cold spell we had. (I didn't find this out until I recently asked my Doc why just lately, my toes had lost some feeling.

Someone mentioned as long as pensioners having to be warm while they watch Sky. In reply to that bit of sarcasm:

I sometimes feel by being old and 'living on the State', I am committing a crime. Especially from the points of view of some youngsters.

I will remind these 'youngsters' that there is only one alternative to growing old. When I worked, I had to provide for my own pension and also pay the pensioners who were drawing out then. I could have moaned about that and the fact that even a millionaire is entitled to a State Pension. But I didn't. I got on with it.

And if you youngsters don't do the same, to greater degree, then when you retire, you'll realise that 'struggling whilst you were young' was just practice for the main event. If you are 'lucky enough' to get there.

John

 

[Digit]

Fair comment I would say John, but regrettably you and i will get hammered along with the rest I fear.

Roy.

 

[Benchwayze]

I love my warm toilet seat though! :lol:

 

[Digit]

Back in the days of outside toilets my dad's answer to what would he do if he won the 'pools' was that he'd buy an electrically heated toilet seat!

Roy.

 

[jlawrence]

John,
As a younger one (only 40), I have to say I agree with you.
You've paid into it all your life so you deserve to collect on those payments when you get to your age. I have a feeling that by the time I get to that age there'll be next to bugger all to collect.
The current deficit isn't down to the bankers (as I understand it) - that comes out of someother debt pool. I believe the national debt (as quoted by news etc) doesn't include the amount spent bailing out the banks as that's classed as of balance sheet debt.
If you include all the banking stuff and the debt is way way higher than (1 trillion) often quoted in the news.

Should all these various extra payments be means tested - possibly but then you've paid into it so why shouldn't you collect.

 

[Dibs-h]

Back in the days of outside toilets my dad's answer to what would he do if he won the 'pools' was that he'd buy an electrically heated toilet seat!

Roy.

We have one!

 

[Jacob]

This country is up to its ears in debt ....

No problemo - tax the rich, that's what they are for. They won't miss it - you can only eat one dinner (unless you are a fat pig!).
They have a problem disposing of their ill-gotten wealth - just look at the crap they buy (heated toilet seats excepted).

 

[Dibs-h]

(heated toilet seats excepted).

ROFLMAO! :lol::lol:

 

[Anonymous]

what do you class as rich Mr G?