Winter Fuel Allowance

[Karl]

I see that the WFA is, in part at least, under threat from budget cuts. I went to see a client this evening who was moaning about it, and I had to bite my tongue as I really didn't want to lose the job!

But why does it only apply to pensioners? With a young family our fuel bill for last winter was horrendous. Are pensioners more valuable to society than children?

Cheers

Karl

 

[RogerS]

No, they're not. No-one is or should be. But it comes down to whether or not you want a load of OAPs to die in winter because they don't have enough pension to heat themselves properly. Most OAPs basically live on a fixed income. Usually a very limited fixed income. And, as we all know bills go up and up and up.

 

[Karl]

I can understand that point Roger, and perhaps if the WFA was means tested then it would make sense.

The guy I saw this evening obviously had a bob or two. Or five.

Wifey hasn't had a pay rise for two years. I haven't been able to increase my rates for the same period (although it looks like things are picking up). So in real terms we've had a pay cut. And yet in the same period our fuel costs have increased, especially given the cold winter we've just experienced.

Perhaps this guy just pi$$ed me off tonight.....

Cheers

Karl

 

[Mike.C]

I can understand that point Roger, and perhaps if the WFA was means tested then it would make sense.

The guy I saw this evening obviously had a bob or two. Or five.

Wifey hasn't had a pay rise for two years. I haven't been able to increase my rates for the same period (although it looks like things are picking up). So in real terms we've had a pay cut. And yet in the same period our fuel costs have increased, especially given the cold winter we've just experienced.

Perhaps this guy just pi$$ed me off tonight.....

Cheers

Karl

Perhaps it was just that one guy that made you feel like this, but believe me Karl he is not the norm when it comes to OAP's. I have seen with my own eyes pensioners sit there in the freezing cold wearing a couple of coats or blankets, with their heating turned right down or even switched off just so they can save up to eat and pay the rest of the bills. And do not forget that although most of them are already dead there are still some OAP's out there that fought a war to give us the freedom we enjoy today.

To put it simply after paying their dues all their life, do we really begrudge them a few extra quid for heating. As to whether it should be means tested well that is a different story.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Peter T]

Clearly there are many, many people on fixed/limited incomes who rely heavily on the WFA to help get then through the winter.

Equally, there are many people, like myself, who are over 60, so get the WFA, but don't need it. I am in full time employment, my kids are all self supporting, and I'm quite comfortable thank you.

I could argue that I've worked, and paid taxes, all my life so I'm entitled to this payment, but, if I'm honest, it would be better spent on those who really need it.

So, it would seem that some sort of means testing would be a good idea but a lot of older people are too proud to submit to this sort of thing so they may miss out.

It's a difficult problem and I don't pretend to have a good answer.

 

[Lons]

Karl

I agree 100% with Mike C on this but I'm also in the same boat as Peter T in that at 60, I received the payment for the first time last winter and didn't need it, (I gave it to my kids who did).

However, it's easy to forget that those on state persions in particular have had a real pay cut for many years, not just the last couple or so and their standard of living has seriously deteriorated to a stage where many of them can't afford to both heat and eat.

We all have "grumpy old man" days and the system is unfair but then so is everything else in life.

Hope you get loads of work, the missus gets a promotion and we have a very mild winter.

cheers

Bob

 

[studders]

It's about time those on Low incomes, including OAPs, were given a reduced rate for Gas and Electric and not just during Winter. The Supply Companies make more than enough profit from the rest of us to be able to do that.

 

[Mike.C]

It's about time those on Low incomes, including OAPs, were given a reduced rate for Gas and Electric and not just during Winter. The Supply Companies make more than enough profit from the rest of us to be able to do that.

Hear hear.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

i think it should definately be means tested.

i know someone who called up the relevent dept the first time they received it and told them that it wasn't needed for their house hold and tried to give it back to them but they said we can't do that, so she gave it away to charity.

 

[Digit]

I receive the WFA and yes it is helpful. I would point out that it is in lieu of a decent pension, the UK being amongst the worst in the EU I understand.
But whilst that is the method of helping perhaps it, along with Child Benefit etc, should be means tested.
I also noted with interest the comments from our Scots friends, me, I live in one of the mildest areas of the UK and my heating bill is, by modern standards, modest. But the WFA is the same for me as it is for someone on one of the windswept Northern Isles!

Roy.

 

[Mike.C]

Roy wrote:

I also noted with interest the comments from our Scots friends, me, I live in one of the mildest areas of the UK and my heating bill is, by modern standards, modest. But the WFA is the same for me as it is for someone on one of the windswept Northern Isles!

A point that should be considered if the benefit is going to be means tested in the future.

Cheers

Mike

 

[big soft moose]

. I have seen with my own eyes pensioners sit there in the freezing cold wearing a couple of coats or blankets, with their heating turned right down or even switched off just so they can save up to eat and pay the rest of the bills.

which shows that WFA isnt working as a solution, son yes a means tested WFA and also a decent WF payment to those who do need it, or better still just pay a decent state pension.

That said its not just pensioners who have winter fuel issues - I remember in 2001 just after my buisness went **** up in foot and mouth being only able to barely heat one room , and essentially moving into the bedroom for the duration and sleeping fully clothed in a sleeping bag under the duvet - it was so cold in my flat that year that the water in the toilet froze as did the washing up water.

so may be just a means tested WFA irrespective of age

 

[thomvic]

This country is up to its ears in debt and although the annual budget deficit may be reduced in this and ensuing years it will be many, many years before any inroads are made on the National Debt currently standiing at about £750 billion. What right have we to pass the debt onto our children, grandchildren and beyond? None, thats what! Cuts, and massive ones have to be made.

I am a recipient of WFA, free bus pass, reduced admission prices pretty much everywhere etc. etc. but, thankfully, don't need this kind of assistance and believe that it should not be given to me or my kind.

All Government handouts of taxpayers money (and borrowings) should morally be subject to means testing with only the needy benefiting. Yes, there are, and will be, abusers but these are comparatively few and really should be largely sorted by good means testing and policing of same.

Catching abusers and ensuring the needy receive what is required could be simplified by doing away with the multiplicity of benefits that are available and just having a single benefit - Social Security Benefit, seems an apt title. The concerns about the needy who are too proud or inadequately educated to be aware of claims procedures would be needless if our Social Services people were on the ball.

We all know that cuts are necessary and also where many of them should fall. It is time for all organisations and individuals to lose the NIMBY attitude and make a contribution for the sake of our descendants.

Richard

 

[Digit]

I can't argue with that.

Roy.

 

[BradNaylor]

My old Mum & Dad live in sheltered housing; their heating is included in the rent, which after housing benefit etc comes to £8 per week.

Yet they still get a cheque every year for winter fuel allowance!

Crazy system! They put the money towards an extra week in the Greek Islands...

 

[petermillard]

Friends of my parents used their WFA to have Sky installed. Hey, cricket's important, apparently...

Pete.

 

[Tom K]

As long as they aren't watching it in the cold nil problemo.

 

[Lons]

There should be a decent state pension which allowed every retired person to live comfortably with dignity. It should not be taxed!

There should be no benefits, wfa, bus passes etc. to "top up" as they would be unnecessary.

Better off pensioners would still pay into the system via income tax as additional income would take them over the tax threshold.

Utopia ? Bugger it's only a dream !

I'm not a pensioner yet btw

Bob

 

[Mike.C]

BSM wrote:

Mike.C wrote:
. I have seen with my own eyes pensioners sit there in the freezing cold wearing a couple of coats or blankets, with their heating turned right down or even switched off just so they can save up to eat and pay the rest of the bills.


which shows that WFA isnt working as a solution, son yes a means tested WFA and also a decent WF payment to those who do need it, or better still just pay a decent state pension.

This was before WFA, and you have no chance of getting a decent state pension off this or any other government, why the heck do you think that they want to put the retirement age up and up, so that they pay out less and less. If they get their way your retirement will be the day you die.

Cheers

Mike

 

[StevieB]

All Government handouts of taxpayers money (and borrowings) should morally be subject to means testing with only the needy benefiting. Yes, there are, and will be, abusers but these are comparatively few and really should be largely sorted by good means testing and policing of same.

Which is an admirable sentiment, but ignores the reality that to means test everyone costs more than the allowance for those that don't need it in the first place. You need to send out forms, provide a helpline for people to fill them in, check them, decide on the outcome, have fraud measures in place, have call centre staff to help and so on. Its exactly the reason child tax credits are so damnably expensive - its the admin in administering the scheme, and the negative headlines when it all goes **** up (CSA, Student Loan Company, Housing asylum seekers in 2 grand a week houses in Highgate etc ring any bells) that means a blanket payment is the least hassle despite the fact it also goes to those who do not need it.

As an alternative, how about the option of opting out of the state pension and benefit system entirely if you have a private or company pension over a certain threshold? If you change job or stop paying into the private pension then the state one kicks in again. The obvious answer to this I guess is that the payments I make now are paying for the pensions of pensioners of today, not sitting in a nice current account waiting for my retirement.

No easy answer to the problem I guess!

Steve