Wild fires in BC Canada.

[deema]

There are a number of scientist who don’t believe we are heading for a climate catastrophe and increased CO2 levels are a bad thing.
I remember the Woody Allan film where he went t9 the future and found that smoking alcohol and butter were good for you…….I can also remember the big push that butter was bad for you and should swap to margarin……and now we are back to pushing butter and ditch margarine.
Yesterday it was an ice age, today its global warming, and tomorrow? I agree, science keeps evolving, and for sure there is nothing certain. Hence I’m not part of the jingoistic perspective of blindly being part of the flock of sheep herded by collie Greta (Have a look back to see how many of her posts she has either deleted or altered as her predictions of global Armageddon have been proved to be….well…..just wrong)

However, like all heretics, I know I’m going to get huge push back, but fortunately not burned at the stake…..unlike Giordano Bruno

 

[Cobbs]

Well at the end of the day, I may be proved wrong in my belief in the evidence for global warming, in which case I'll look a right tw*t, but there'll be nothing new in that. If on the other hand, you're proved wrong and all this burning of fossil fuel leads to the end of our comfortable little lives, then we and all our descendants are completely bu66ered. I know which outcome I would rather risk...

 

[Jacob]

Well, UWP here, I love Jacobs reasoned, well researched opinions, he always puts a smile on my face. All ‘science’ should be treated with a huge dollop of skepticism,

It is already.
Scepticism is the whole basis of science.

just about every theory that ever existed has been proved wrong, and in need of a total rethink.

Except for the ones which turned out to be right. Lots of rethinking certainly went on in the development of scientific knowledge.
But you never know - the flat earthers could be right after all.

....

I’ve highlighted before that plants actually need CO2 to survive and thrive, and in fact we were getting close to the point at which plants would have died because of a lack of CO2 in the atmosphere.

Where do you pick up all this astonishing nonsense?
Are you rehearsing for some sort of comedy act? Crackpot politics one week, daft science the next?

PS Have you been reading Viz magazine by any chance? It's not supposed to be taken seriously it's a "satirical" comic. Like the Daily Mail but funnier and more intelligent.

 

[Agent_zed]

Now, you may or may not know of the climate clock in NY, well that was started in 2020 and supported by the supreme expert Greta, who was also dealing with school exams at the time…… now stands at 5 years 317 days until we all die

I'm afraid you are completely wrong about what the climate clock is about. It is not and never was a date at which we all cease to exist. It is the theoretical date at which the planet will have warmed by 1.5degrees since pre-industrial times and will be a point of no return.

If you are unable to find this out or understand this very simple concept then I would perhaps suggest it may call your current understanding of more detailed climate science in to question.

Perhaps we need to look at this a different way. The world is now a finely balanced system, we have for some time been able to cheat the system and maintain a relatively safe existance. If you push the system too far it will begin to fail and the more it fails the quicker it will fail.

Take food for example. We all take it for granted that we can go to tescos and buy bread and the few times there is a shortage for a day or 2 people go crazy. But what happens when an increased temperature causes drought or some disease to spread and grain production is slashed in half. Then you have no bread for weeks or months. And then what happens when that happens for multiple food sources and countries think why are we exporting our precious food to the UK when our people need it? Are we going to be able to grow enough food in the UK for our population?

We seem to play very fast and loose with our existance seemingly on the basis that some billionaire somewhere wants to remain a billionaire. Lets not forget that the people most keen to ensure you make no changes to the things you do are billionaires and they invest a lot of time and money ensuring it stays that way.

 

[deema]

@Agent_zed Thank you, your spot on my error, it’s a count down to 1.5C the prelude to world catastrophe.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Lets not forget that the people most keen to ensure you make no changes to the things you do are billionaires and they invest a lot of time and money ensuring it stays that way.

Let's not forget also that many other multi million/billionaires are investing time and money ensuring we have to change. Start with the WEF.

 

[deema]

@Agent_zed It’s interesting your analogy with bread, if we dint have oil, which is the base for almost all fertiliser used today to enable us to feed the world, we will actual have immediate starvation for millions. Just stop oil completely miss the point that modern intensive agriculture that keeps us all fed relies on man made fertiliser. So, of we ’just stop oil’ next year we will have a major food crises never mind when the world heats up 1.5C

Im sceptical, not an ardent antagonist against global warming. Firstly I’m not denying or even disputing the world is getting hotter, just what the effect will be. We have known for about 150 years that CO2 retains heat and its presence is why the earth hasn’t an average temperature of c-16C and is the c15C we enjoy today. My issue is that Firstly we can’t predict weather with any degree of accuracy more than a few days into the future, so everything else is just speculation, secondly the earth supported a huge diversity of life, was greener and more lush when there was 3% CO2 in the atmosphere, not 0.04% we have to today. The percentage we are talking about as an increase is minuscule so clearly when there was 7500% more CO2 and we know what the world was like, it hadn’t turned into the reincarnation of hell and wasn’t just desert. It was fertile and green.

I never understand this dig at ‘billionaires’ or even millionaires earned off oil. I’m certain that everyone making pseudo green energy products is doing it for nothing, an altruistic endeavour for the good of mankind not making a single penny in profit? Or, as is the case, another group making billions building ‘green’ stuff…..Elon Musk for example, the wealthiest man on the planet made his money exactly how??

 

[deema]

Today, I think every country should be seeking the 3i’s of independence.
Independence of food production, notreliant in any imports, able to feed its own population
Independence of energy, be able to support the country’s energy needs without any imports.
Independence of technology. Not in particular rely on any other country for the most vital technology silicone wafer fabrication.

The USA has got it right and is seeking to achieve the 3i’s with just technology left to accomplish. Once the new wafer fab labs are running in the USA and it’s dependence on Taiwan is severed, then China will take over Taiwan with just an eyebrow of disapproval being lifted by the west. Until then, the USA will stand by Taiwan. China, knows this and is just patiently waiting, they are always think at least 60 years ahead.

Im not sure if the drive for net zero by the UK isn’t really about achieving energy independence wrapped up as a green agenda.

 

[Jacob]

@Agent_zed It’s interesting your analogy with bread, if we dint have oil, which is the base for almost all fertiliser used today to enable us to feed the world, we will actual have immediate starvation for millions. Just stop oil completely miss the point that modern intensive agriculture that keeps us all fed relies on man made fertiliser. So, of we ’just stop oil’ next year we will have a major food crises never mind when the world heats up 1.5C

You are getting closer. Yes just stopping oil would be a disaster, but nothing like the disaster facing us if we don't.
This is the big issue you've hit the nail on the head, well done.

Im sceptical, not an ardent antagonist against global warming. Firstly I’m not denying or even disputing the world is getting hotter, just what the effect will be. We have known for about 150 years that CO2 retains heat and its presence is why the earth hasn’t an average temperature of c-16C and is the c15C we enjoy today. My issue is that Firstly we can’t predict weather with any degree of accuracy more than a few days into the future, so everything else is just speculation,

It's not about weather prediction it's about climate prediction. They aren't exactly the same thing. The basic climate prediction is that weather events will get more severe but not necessarily knowing where/when or to what extent. It is happening now all round the globe in different ways. It's happening here with record breaking temperatures. Very pleasant within reason but it wouldn't take much to go beyond this

secondly the earth supported a huge diversity of life, was greener and more lush when there was 3% CO2 in the atmosphere, not 0.04% we have to today. The percentage we are talking about as an increase is minuscule so clearly when there was 7500% more CO2 and we know what the world was like, it hadn’t turned into the reincarnation of hell and wasn’t just desert. It was fertile and green.

But utterly uninhabitable by human beings. Carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere - Wikipedia.

 

[Jacob]

.....

Im not sure if the drive for net zero by the UK isn’t really about achieving energy independence wrapped up as a green agenda.

Your 3is are meaningless unless they relate to reduction and cessation of fossil fuel extraction. That is the only issue.
What is wrong with a green agenda? We need one urgently. NHS has a health agenda is that a bad thing?
Health warning - if you carry on looking for the facts you might be in for a shock - things are looking pretty bad.

 

[deema]

It might be perceived as semantics, but, if it’s a green agenda, and the imperative is to stop CO2 then there is so much low hanging fruit that could be harvested: but thats not what is happening, so why not? If armageddon is about yo hit Just Stop Oil have a point, yes a few billion won’t make it as a consequenc, a few wars will start for resources, but enough of us will survive to ensure the species continues.

The UK has banned oil fired boilers from I think 2025, gas fired boilers from I think 2030, they also have a published maximum boiler water temperature output limits for new boilers which are also descending over a short period of time to roughly coincide with air / earth source heat pumps. Now let’s firstly assume everyone can afford the changes to their houses that are required to actually keep them warm with these low boiler temperatures. I know, you’re wondering where this is going…….So, for low water heating temperatures you need to have a highly insulated house, none of this mamby pamby single glazing, preferably triple glazing. You need, to add insulation into the floors, walls and roof. You need to either rip out your central heating system and fit underfloor heating or ensure all micro bore piping is eliminated and roughly double the size of your existing radiators. These changes will be necessary for the majority of the UK housing stock. Yep, all very sensible and good green credentials……….however, exactly how much CO2 has been generated making, transporting and installing this stuff? How much additional electrical infrastructure is required to support it (well, double what we have now, and that’s a huge amount) so by the time you add up the CO2 cost of going green…..well your actually creating a net increase over what it would have been, ie your bringing forward dooms day. Hence my scepticism.

 

[Jacob]

It might be perceived as semantics, but, if it’s a green agenda, and the imperative is to stop CO2 then there is so much low hanging fruit that could be harvested: but thats not what is happening, so why not? If armageddon is about yo hit Just Stop Oil have a point, yes a few billion won’t make it as a consequenc, a few wars will start for resources, but enough of us will survive to ensure the species continues.

The UK has banned oil fired boilers from I think 2025, gas fired boilers from I think 2030, they also have a published maximum boiler water temperature output limits for new boilers which are also descending over a short period of time to roughly coincide with air / earth source heat pumps. Now let’s firstly assume everyone can afford the changes to their houses that are required to actually keep them warm with these low boiler temperatures. I know, you’re wondering where this is going…….So, for low water heating temperatures you need to have a highly insulated house, none of this mamby pamby single glazing, preferably triple glazing. You need, to add insulation into the floors, walls and roof. You need to either rip out your central heating system and fit underfloor heating or ensure all micro bore piping is eliminated and roughly double the size of your existing radiators. These changes will be necessary for the majority of the UK housing stock. Yep, all very sensible and good green credentials……….however, exactly how much CO2 has been generated making, transporting and installing this stuff? How much additional electrical infrastructure is required to support it (well, double what we have now, and that’s a huge amount) so by the time you add up the CO2 cost of going green…..well your actually creating a net increase over what it would have been, ie your bringing forward dooms day. Hence my scepticism.

Well you are starting to ask the right questions. Welcome to the real world!

 

[Jacob]

There are a number of scientist who don’t believe we are heading for a climate catastrophe ,,,

They were wrong. They are history. It has arrived.
It is catastrophic now, for many people around the globe, and it's coming your way, sooner or later, one way or another.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/ifgej14zt1/greece-wildfire

 

[Jacob]

..... Hence my scepticism.

Too soon for scepticism.
You need to research these things or work out some figures. Until you do it's just ignorance. Literally, not trying to be rude.
Asking questions is good but not seeking answers is a bit silly!

 

[Recky33]

Asking questions is good but not seeking answers is a bit silly!

So... exactly what have you done that's going to turn around the situation we are "told" we are in ?

 

[Jacob]

So... exactly what have you done that's going to turn around the situation we are "told" we are in ?

Another sceptic! Maybe you should try listening to what you are being told?
Answer - voted green and argued the case, supported the cause, wherever possible. The ballot box is the only lever we have and trying to influence people is important.
Not a lot one can do as in individual but have done various things - biggest spend was on insulation, but also other greenish life style variations.
So... exactly what have you done that's going to turn around the situation we are in ? Ignoring it I presume?
You might try doing a bit of background reading there's plenty of info out there. Not too late (yet ) to start getting up to speed!

 

[mcostello]

It would be easier to believe but the people telling Us this stuff play fast and loose with the truth and bend it to Their will.

 

[deema]

I’m so delighted we have pledged £1.6 billion to India to assist with climate change. Such a good use of our national borrowings (remember we have a massive budget deficit) that the next generations will have to pay back. Yep, it’s brilliant we don’t have any domestic issues pressing that could need that money, no schools or hospitals crumbling, no homeless on the UK streets, nobody in fuel poverty, everyone able to give their kiddies three healthy meals a day and just a mere 10% of the population waiting for a hospital appointment. I know, we could squander our small resources on landing a rocket on the moon, but we will leave such extravagant spending to other wealthy countries that have absolutely no need for any foreign aid.

I also know, that £1,6 billion will have a huge impact in reducing CO2 emissions as it will be spent wisely without any whiff of corruption. We can all sleep a lot better in our beds tonight knowing that our wonderful prime minister is helping the nation of his birth, yes he flew there stayed in a very modest hotel, ate poorly rather than using video conference that we all managed to get by with under Covid. I’m sure he will be planting a few trees somewhere to compensate as he is aware we are in the brink of our own destruction.

I’m sure that our friends the Ukrainians, whose blood is staining their country trying to repel the socialist state of Russia will see the value of us giving India £1,6 billion. India, a staunch supporter of freedom, wouldn’t buy Russian oil, gas and grain as well as exporting vital war mongering supplies that the rest of us have sanctioned (oh yes they do!). Yet, whilst we pay higher fuel bills, that pushes up the price of everything we can be confident that India is also feeling the same pain. But clearly our dear friends the Ukrainians and ourselves along with the rest of west don’t understand we should be welcoming the opportunity in live in a truly fair, equal, free society that socialism brings to everyone. Why they are still fighting is a mystery. Trust the irony is clear!

I’ve now learnt the true way to enlightenment and have put on my Green suite and popped on my Woke hat whilst worshipping at the socialist alter for redemption of my sins.

 

[Cobbs]

I’m so delighted we have pledged £1.6 billion to India to assist with climate change. Such a good use of our national borrowings (remember we have a massive budget deficit) that the next generations will have to pay back. Yep, it’s brilliant we don’t have any domestic issues pressing that could need that money, no schools or hospitals crumbling, no homeless on the UK streets, nobody in fuel poverty, everyone able to give their kiddies three healthy meals a day and just a mere 10% of the population waiting for a hospital appointment. I know, we could squander our small resources on landing a rocket on the moon, but we will leave such extravagant spending to other wealthy countries that have absolutely no need for any foreign aid.

I also know, that £1,6 billion will have a huge impact in reducing CO2 emissions as it will be spent wisely without any whiff of corruption. We can all sleep a lot better in our beds tonight knowing that our wonderful prime minister is helping the nation of his birth, yes he flew there stayed in a very modest hotel, ate poorly rather than using video conference that we all managed to get by with under Covid. I’m sure he will be planting a few trees somewhere to compensate as he is aware we are in the brink of our own destruction.
I’ve now learnt the true way to enlightenment and have put on my Green suite and popped on my Woke hat whilst worshipping at the socialist alter for redemption of my sins.

Believe me Deema, when I say I share your cynicism, but in truth we are a rich country that has done more than most over the years to create the climate crisis and should be doing more to ease it.

I'm pretty sure that if we taxed the rich in a much more fair manner than currently, we could solve the problems in this country that you mention and still be easily able to help third world countries catch up. There should not be poverty in a country like ours, fairer wealth distribution is the key, global as well as national, but alas, I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[deema]

@Cobbs
Well, according to Forbes there are in 2023 169 billionaires in India and 171 in the UK, the big difference is that the Indian billionaires are in the majority Indian nationals, and ours aren't.

Now, rather than giving £1.6 of our money, surely he could have given his wife’s family money to India instead? Are they by any chance Indian? living in India? Don’t they care about the catastrophe that’s upon us? Dont native Indians feel compelled to use their own resources, redistribute the vast wealth within India for the common good? Is that simply down to the rest of us?? After all they are billionaires. In the league table of CO2 emissions the UK is and always has been a tiny contributor.