Wide blades and narrow stones

[pompon44]

Dear all,

I'm getting a hard time sharpening my old Stanley N° 8 blade. I do have a Veritas MkII honing guide and Ice bear's waterstones (from APTC). Problem is the blade is wider than the stone...
The net result I get so far (just trying to establish a primary "grind" bevel on my 220) is that I don't seem to be able to "reach" the sides of the blade. (hopefully this can be seen in the picture). If I continue like that I guess I'll get the bevel up to the tip of the blade on to the center well before on to the corners (was that clear ? ;-) )
I've tried rolling the corners of the blade more often than the center on the stone. Not sure this is the way to go though.
How do you generally deal with that ?

Thanks,

 

[bugbear]

Dear all,

I'm getting a hard time sharpening my old Stanley N° 8 blade. I do have a Veritas MkII honing guide and Ice bear's waterstones (from APTC). Problem is the blade is wider than the stone...
The net result I get so far (just trying to establish a primary "grind" bevel on my 220) is that I don't seem to be able to "reach" the sides of the blade. (hopefully this can be seen in the picture). If I continue like that I guess I'll get the bevel up to the tip of the blade on to the center well before on to the corners (was that clear ? ;-) )

Thanks,

I suspect the blade has a large original camber, which you're now removing.

It's hard to know from the photo, since many lenses have barrel distortion.

If the blade is only a little wider than the stone, simple alternation from side to side (and care with your pressure) should address the issue.

BugBear

 

[gidon]

You could also try "side sharpening" (holding the bevel flat to the stone so the width of the blade is parallel to the length of the stone) the blade. Although that'd have to be freehand. I've never tried it myself, but with a wide enough bevel shouldn't be too tricky.
Cheers
Gidon

 

[George_N]

Be careful you don't grind a hollow into your waterstone. You'd be better using a grinder to establish the primary bevel, if you have access to one. A sheet of float glass with some 60 grit AlOx abrasive will also cut pretty fast and it can be as wide as you want (no danger of overheating either). The cambered roller for the MkII is also a good investment for honing plane irons.

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

I have recently gone onto side sharpening, at first it is a bit tricky to find a good hold, but it didnt take long for it to feel natural.
Consequently my blades seem to feel sharper, Probably because the grit is being used paralell to the edge of the blade.

 

[MikeW]

Side sharpening is a good way--of course. I do most of my freehand sharpening thatta way :lol:

It does solve the issue of wide blade, narrow stone. Utilizes much/most of the stone's surface easily.

I think the issue of "sharper" can also be due to a lack of rocking. I.e., it allows for easily maintainable, positive registration.

Take care, Mike

 

[pompon44]

Hi,

Well, ok, freehand sharpening seems to be the solution. That was the kind of answer I was afraid of ;-) But looks like I'll have to try it anyway... (or to buy bigger stones, which I'm not really willing either :-( )

Regards,

 

[Alf]

You could sell the #8...

Sheesh, what am I saying?! :shock: 8-[

Cheers, Alf

 

[OLD]

From the picture it looks like it was originally sharpened on a worn dished stone so you have to keep on sharpening or accept a blade with rounded corners which may not be so bad.

 

[MikeW]

Tis the fever, Alf :lol:
Don't worry, the next boot sale you'll get better...

At least side sharpening will get you the sharp blade without any further cost. Who knows, sharpening by hand may be easier than you think...

Mike

 

[David C]

If your blade is to have a slight camber/enormous radius as it might for many operations;

There should be no problem whatsoever.

Use point pressure at about five positions across the edge, and just make sure that the segment of the arc being worked is on the stone.

If you want a straight edge, (not often fond of these myself, but they have their uses in jointing) freehand with a slight skew should work fine.

Here is a case for that fantastically simple honing guide (Old Record or marples) with the narrow brass wheel to have one ball instead of the wheel??

Bugbear may oblige with drawings from old catalogues... and he has probably made something cunning to deal with this problem.

I can see no great need to go buying more stones......

David C

 

[Anonymous]

I think that I would stop using the stone.
Place some wet and dry paper on a a flat surface (surface plate, Float glass - MDF on flat bench if not) and use the scary sharp method.

I have used this several times when encountering your problem (use stones 95% of the time) and it works great - spray wet and dry with water from a 'plant mister'. I go up to 1200 grit (when i can buy it) in wet and dry and have some 0.5 micron paper from Veritas to get a fantastic edge

 

[bugbear]

Here is a case for that fantastically simple honing guide (Old Record or marples) with the narrow brass wheel to have one ball instead of the wheel??

Bugbear may oblige with drawings from old catalogues...

Alice has all;

http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/album/ ... hp?album=6

(The Record Jig with the ball BTW, does NOT NOT NOT work)

BugBear

 

[Alf]

(The Record Jig with the ball BTW, does NOT NOT NOT work)

I'm getting a slightly negative vibe here. You trying to tell us something there, BB? :-k :lol:

Pompon, are you using the stock straight roller on the MkII? I assume yes? One of the advantages (IMO) of the cambered roller is it's easier to manoeuvre the whole thing across the stone to spread the wear (something I do anyway) instead of feeling like you're stuck in one path with the straight roller. fwiw, anyway. Although freehand honing is nice to be able to do, so don't let me dissuade you!

Cheers, Alf

 

[pompon44]

Dear Alf,

Yes, I only get the straight roller for the moment (the cambered one is on its way, as I ordered it to be able to manage with my scrub blade...). Meanwhile I guess I'll give freehand sharpening a try.

Regards,

 

[Scott]

Is the back of that blade properly flat? i.e. the blade itself isn't convex across it's width on the bevel side is it? Just a thought after looking at the pic (and assuming your waterstone is flat of course)

 

[Anonymous]

You'd probably feather the edges anyway such that the few mill you can't sharpen near both corners won't take a cut anyway.

If you don't feather, for say jointing work, really want the hole edge of the blade to see the stone at once, so that idea of turning the stone around 90 degrees would be the go...

But that means sharpening freehand......If you want to use a guide, I don't see why you can't makeup a supporting block out of wood, sitting beside the stone with its top flush to the stone, or near too.....the wheel of your guide can just run along that.... a consistant angle should be maintained.

.... don't forget to keep those stones flat for sharpening blades with straight edges (for jointing or shooting).....don't need much of a dish in the stone to transfer a curve to your blade. Easily done if not careful.

 

[pompon44]

Well, just as a follow-up...
I gave freehand sharpening a try. Not so bad I would say, even if keeping an angle (I'm not saying keeping the angle ;-) ) is a bit of a challenge for me.
Even more when moving to the finishing stone and trying to increase the angle a tiny bit...
But overall not as difficult as I would have expected, except for the narrowness of my stones (50mm wide only) which really leaves little room for my 65mm wide blade. Still practising though...
Thus I'm considering upgrading my stones (I also miss an intermediate grit, I only have a 1000/6000 combination stone).
Read here nice things about both Nortons and King. I do know where to buy Nortons (LN has them at good price I guess), but where could I get King ones, if I'd decide to go that route ? (Axminster's 800 does not seem to be King brand, or is it ?).
Any more advise on those stones that you'd like to share ?

Regards,

 

[Anonymous]

why not check out jinn him on ebay

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/HAND-TOOL-BARGAINS

I've got stones from them they are OK to deal with

 

[JesseM]

The Norton's are wide enough. The King's seems to be all over the place. I've got a 4000 grit King which is plenty wide and then a couple of King combo stones which are very narrow. Just make sure you pay attention to the width when looking.

Stay away from the Norton 220. A shapton GlassStone of equivalence is much more useful. You just need a means of flattening it. Lately I've been using glass plate and silicon carbide, but a diamind stone works as well.