Who is in and who is out?
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Phil Pascoe
Established Member
I look forward to reading your better suggestion.
Iin or out - both sides seem equally carried away with their own sense of speaking for the "silent majority". Pollsters suggest a close result with perhaps a 2-3% difference, thus leaving huge room for further demands for a fresh referendum by both sides whenever they feel they have the upper hand...
Personally I would be in favour of the EU stopping their onward march to ever closer union, taking a deep breath and listening to what their electorates actually want before re-designing a new improved version of themselves....EU-lite if you will... with fewer bureaucrats, rules, and un-elected presidents...and for the sake of sanity could they not put and end to the ridiculously expensive shuttling between Strasbourg and Brussels every month...
Ah well, I can dream....
Pozidrive
P.S. In the meantime, OUT gets my vote
Personally I would be in favour of the EU stopping their onward march to ever closer union, taking a deep breath and listening to what their electorates actually want before re-designing a new improved version of themselves....EU-lite if you will... with fewer bureaucrats, rules, and un-elected presidents...and for the sake of sanity could they not put and end to the ridiculously expensive shuttling between Strasbourg and Brussels every month...
Ah well, I can dream....
Pozidrive
P.S. In the meantime, OUT gets my vote
RogerS
Established Member
Pozidrive":jmah9ri2 said:
Ah yes..I completely forgot all about that and, after over 60 pages, no Remainer has given any justification for this.
Sheffield Tony":2cc3pcwu said:
That's all well and good in principle, but I don't trust my MP to do anything that doesn't further her own interests. She's already shown her true colours by towing the party line instead of representing her constituents.
In any case, how many of our MPs even understand the issues themselves? Many are career politicians with no experience in economics etc.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
You can't expect them to worry about that when they've been so busy limiting the power consumption of our hoovers.
Even if we disagree with it happening and agree it's daft? Are we supposed to justify it? I don't think we are, I'm not speaking for everyone though.RogerS":1i17re24 said:
This will be a problem of your own making if we leave, it's not down to me to find a solution. Expect that a lot in the coming years by the way.phil.p":1i17re24 said:
If you'd voted IN, we wouldn't need to do it. Next question.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Good reason for staying ... I wish I'd thought of it.
dexter
Established Member
The first inside page also states it's a European Union passport. Perhaps issues like this are still on the leave campaigns," to do" list. The devil as they say, is in the details.
If you were a member of a committee of let's say, a golf club and one of your members attends a committee meeting and tells you that he's sick and tired of the club rules and the membership fees, so sick and tired in fact, that he's leaving the club and going to play on other courses where he will get betters conditions. He then says that despite this he still wants to play at the club for free,use its membership card, not have to abide by its rules and he also wants to use the clubhouse for networking with the members, what would you tell him?
This whole campaign, in and out has been staged like a Saturday night prime time TV show, shallow and without any real substance.
Who in their right mind would, in public, slag off, insult and ridicule their current business partners, decrying to the world that they would be better off without them. Not just once, but constantly for months and then expect favourable consideration from them in future business negotiations? You might get away with it on a Saturday night prime time TV show but not in the real world.
On the whole, I think that most of the EU's leaders have tried to keep a dignified distance from the UK's affairs. However, after 10pm tonight, "normal business will resume"
Boris Johnson said that he wanted today to be the UK's Independence Day.
Regardless of if the UK votes stay or leave, tomorrow could well be the UK's Judgement Day.
If you were a member of a committee of let's say, a golf club and one of your members attends a committee meeting and tells you that he's sick and tired of the club rules and the membership fees, so sick and tired in fact, that he's leaving the club and going to play on other courses where he will get betters conditions. He then says that despite this he still wants to play at the club for free,use its membership card, not have to abide by its rules and he also wants to use the clubhouse for networking with the members, what would you tell him?
This whole campaign, in and out has been staged like a Saturday night prime time TV show, shallow and without any real substance.
Who in their right mind would, in public, slag off, insult and ridicule their current business partners, decrying to the world that they would be better off without them. Not just once, but constantly for months and then expect favourable consideration from them in future business negotiations? You might get away with it on a Saturday night prime time TV show but not in the real world.
On the whole, I think that most of the EU's leaders have tried to keep a dignified distance from the UK's affairs. However, after 10pm tonight, "normal business will resume"
Boris Johnson said that he wanted today to be the UK's Independence Day.
Regardless of if the UK votes stay or leave, tomorrow could well be the UK's Judgement Day.
DiscoStu
Established Member
I do wonder if MP's should have to pass an intelligence test before they can stand for parliament. It would include British history, economics, testing on laws and things like how the NHS works etc.
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BearTricks
Established Member
RogerS":2gnnxvg0 said:
They could get bikes to save on transport costs but I don't think the forum could handle a third thread complaining about bicycles.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
You appear to forget one thing - they sell us nearly twice what we sell them. They will not readily give up that market. According to Peter Lilley, who helped set up the single market (or as C. Moore in The Telegraph called it - the single regulatory area) we would pay an average tariff of 2.4% to trade without trading agreements. Trading with an agreement that is is supposed to be in our favour we pay what amounts to an average tariff of 7% ... so it is smart to pay 7% to avoid paying 2.4%? But then as a former trade and industry minister I don't suppose he has the foggiest idea what he's talking about ...dexter":j0sqda6j said:
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
There is absolutely no justification for it - it is a legacy of the initial foundation of the EU and the French don't want to change it.
Terry
Just as in the UK we do lots of things for which many would argue there is no justification - the monarchy, changing of the guard, medals and honours, changing the clocks, sunday trading laws ............ But they are all part of our rich history and tradition. The cost is (in the grand scheme of things) quite trivial. It just isn't worth getting worked up about - any more than the colour of the paint in the bathroom of a new house.
Terry
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Aaahh ... so the cost of keeping 750 trucks on the road perpetually is insignificant? no wonder you're supporting in.
I look forward to someone saying sometime in the future - well, we've got to keep them going , it's history and tradition.
That has to be be the most ridiculous comment in 66 pages.
I look forward to someone saying sometime in the future - well, we've got to keep them going , it's history and tradition.
That has to be be the most ridiculous comment in 66 pages.
dexter
Established Member
You appear to forget one thing - they sell us nearly twice what we sell them. They will not readily give up that market. According to Peter Lilley, who helped set up the single market (or as C. Moore in The Telegraph called it - the single regulatory area) we would pay an average tariff of 2.4% to trade without trading agreements. Trading with an agreement that is is supposed to be in our favour we pay what amounts to an average tariff of 7% ... so it is smart to pay 7% to avoid paying 2.4%? But then as a former trade and industry minister I don't suppose he has the foggiest idea what he's talking about ..
I keep on hearing that, "they sell us more than we sell them" but, and forgive me if I'm mistaken, they, the EU, don't sell all their worldwide exports to the UK. They also sell to the rest of the world. Certainly the likes of BMW, Audi,VW et al all export more goods to the rest of the world than than they do to the UK. I don't know what the UK imports that is the Lions share of any particular market.
My point was, if you know that you may well have to negotiate with someone in the future why would you want to criticise and insult them in public to the rest of the world, and it was to the rest of the world. It was as simple as that.
Matters of trade aren't the only issues that will have to be negotiated if the vote is to leave. Take my earlier post about the 42 million or so UK held passports that would need to be changed, the logistics of that would be immense and take years to achieve. No doubt some agreement could be negotiated to keep using existing passports until they expire and then replace them with a new UK version. But the EU states could, if they were bloody minded enough, force the issue and insist that a UK passport is produced at their border in order to enter and they would be quite within their rights.
It's all well and good taking back control of what you want, as long as you accept that you may be relinquishing control of some things you take for granted and some politician, seeking to further their own future by grandstanding in front of the world could in the long term be doing more harm than good.
I keep on hearing that, "they sell us more than we sell them" but, and forgive me if I'm mistaken, they, the EU, don't sell all their worldwide exports to the UK. They also sell to the rest of the world. Certainly the likes of BMW, Audi,VW et al all export more goods to the rest of the world than than they do to the UK. I don't know what the UK imports that is the Lions share of any particular market.
My point was, if you know that you may well have to negotiate with someone in the future why would you want to criticise and insult them in public to the rest of the world, and it was to the rest of the world. It was as simple as that.
Matters of trade aren't the only issues that will have to be negotiated if the vote is to leave. Take my earlier post about the 42 million or so UK held passports that would need to be changed, the logistics of that would be immense and take years to achieve. No doubt some agreement could be negotiated to keep using existing passports until they expire and then replace them with a new UK version. But the EU states could, if they were bloody minded enough, force the issue and insist that a UK passport is produced at their border in order to enter and they would be quite within their rights.
It's all well and good taking back control of what you want, as long as you accept that you may be relinquishing control of some things you take for granted and some politician, seeking to further their own future by grandstanding in front of the world could in the long term be doing more harm than good.
Rhyolith
Established Member
This must be some sort of record for number of posts in one thread 
RobinBHM
Established Member
Rhyolith":pyzk1jw7 said:This must be some sort of record for number of posts in one thread
I think there was a workshop building thread that have a few more
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