Which lube?? ...steady-on!...

[lathepilot]

Hi all, I am yet another habitual lurker coming out of the shadows. I am seeking some advice.

Inspired partly by the wadkin planer rebuild threads on this forum, I bought a BAO/S P/T on the 'bay. Perhaps it should be noted that I have already stripped and rebuilt an AGS10 that was is need of some TLC- the "slope" must be very slippery in this part of lancashire.

I have stopped short of re-painting this one, the original paint isn't too bad. It certainly doesn't justify the extra time and expense- I'll do that in another 20 years! But I am taking everything apart, cleaning, polishing, oiling and rebuilding.

The question is, how critical is the grease I use??

I have been using WD-40, 3-in-1 and a tub of general purpose high speed bearing grease (from Halfords) for the bits I have done already. But now I have come to the thicknesser feed roller wormbox. The original grease had hardened up a but and wasn't coating the gears very well. It was also a particularly bright orange!

This part lives in the base so I don't want to re-pack it with the wrong stuff. It would be a pain to get in there again.

The manual lists:

Castrol ZN220
BP Energol CS320
Shell Vitrea 320
Esso Spartan EP220
Texaco Regal oil 320 and
Wadkin L2

as being the approved lubricants.

Can I just use a widely available bearing grease or will I shorten the life of these gears?

Any advice from the experienced would be super.

 

[CWatters]

I don't think I'd use 3in1 or general grease. The 220/320 is the ISO viscosity. Any gear oil of around that viscocity should be ok. Perhaps take a trip to the garden center. They will probably sell it in small quantities for the gearboxes on garden tools like hedge trimmers and chainsaws.

 

[9fingers]

Further to Colin's post. The lubricants listed are oils not greases

320 is pretty 'gloopy' ( a technical term in the lube industry!!) and will coat surfaces well. Don't put too much in as it will only leak out. the level is usually up to the bottom of the lowest shaft in the gearbox. Once the gears are in motion it will coat the running surfaces and then drain back after a long delay, once the machine stops.

It is curious that your list mixes 220 and 320 oils unless this is a typo. I'd stick with the more viscous 320 types.

You are not going to find this type of oil in halfrauds. you might get it from bearing stockists or lubrication oil specialists (yellow pages) but you might have to buy 5litres. Could be worth trying small engineering companies who manufacture or service machines. They might let you have a modest quantity for the price of a drink.

good luck

Bob

 

[Digit]

Shell/Mobil still do an EP 320 LP.
It's a straight gear oil.

Roy.

 

[lathepilot]

Thanks Colin and Bob,
I think this would have to be quite a viscous grease since the bottom of the gearbox isn't sealed! The motor, mounted directly below, drives a worm gear through a hole that it considerably bigger than the motor shaft- slightly larger than the plain collar on the worm gear.

The original grease, a bright orange colour and opaque, had hardened up at the top but was still quite sticky at the bottom, and it did fill the housing to the top. When I removed the cover, some of it was stuck to the underside and "cracked off" rather than forming stringy bits. Some grease could be seen between the housing and the motor but this was a more yellow colour, so either it had aged differently hence the colour change or it was a different grease that had been used in the motor bearing.

I turned the motor before stripping it down and it was clear that despite grey deposits in the grease that were close to the gears (indicating wear on the gears), the bulk of the grease wasn't being drawn into the gears and used. This makes me think that the grease had been replaced inappropriately at some point or it had never been changed and had fossilised.

I think you are right Bob, a gloopy oil that moves enough to re-coat surfaces seems appropriate rather than a semi-solid that will eventually be pushed aside. However, the physical make-up of the parts indicates that too liquid a lubricant would be just as disasterous.

Would a 320 oil stay-put?

Confusion reigns! :?

Anyone else care to comment on this distinctly non-woody concern??

 

[lathepilot]

Roy, is it widely available??

 

[Digit]

Depends on how good your local supplier is mate. I needed some special lube once and the local garage didn't want to know so I contacted the customer service people and they sent me five litres FOC.
I explained that what I wanted was unavailable locally and they came up trumps.

Roy.

 

[Rich]

Why don't you use one of the proscribed greases?

Rich.

 

[9fingers]

Lathepilot,

I'm becoming slightly confused too. The lubricants you listed are definitely oils. You say there is a hole in the bottom of the gearbox. So any viscosity oil would eventually run out.
Greases are not suitable for gears transmitting any useful power. As you have found, they just get pushed out of the way. A fluid lubricant is needed.
Does the gearbox bolt to the motor and might the shaft have once had an oil seal on it?
Maybe you could fit a seal - theses are standard parts available from bearing factors.

I've been looking for suppliers.
RS components will want £100 inc vat delivered for 5 litres of Rocol but I think this is a synthetic or semi synthetic oil - OTT for your needs
I can get this at a good discount but still possible more than you want to spend?
http://www.lubricants.org have several mineral oils that are suitable but sold in 20 L drums these are £60 ish vat ex not delivered. Price per litre is not too bad but 20L is several lifetimes supply I expect!

Bob

 

[Digit]

Grease in a gearbox is a waste of time, the gears simply carve holes in the grease and run dry.
Those lubes listed are Extreme Pressure oils as were used in back axle diffs for example.
A local company that services trucks may well stock a suitable lube.

Roy.

 

[lathepilot]

Bob, the manual shows no other parts that might be missing, though when I think about it the cylindrical collar at the base of the worm gear probably sits in the hole when it is in place on the shaft. Thus the hole in the 'box housing would be almost filled though not sealed. I doubt that there would be space to retro-fit a seal.

It is a flange mount motor- two of the flange mounting holes are bolted to the wormbox while the other two are used to bolt the whole assembly into the main body casting.

Roy, which company was that?

I reckon that it has an internal volume of about half a litre so I would be pained to buy 5 litres! I could think of a few other tools that would benefit from my attention.

Did I say "..tools.." of course I meant tasks around the home. :wink:

JJ/Simon any other BAOS owners... Have you delved into your 'boxes?
Your ongoing suggestions much appreciated.

 

[Digit]

Shell. I'd built a motor bike, and with the particular state of tune the engine oil capacity was insufficient, I added a cooler, which helped, then decided to try the then new synthetics.

Roy.

 

[DaveL]

Just to muddy the situation, Royal Enfield bikes at one time had such a problem with the gearbox oil disappearing on to the road they used an oil grease mix. The box had an amount of grease packed into it as it was assembled and then this was topped up with very thick gear oil. I am sorry I have given away all of my RE books over the years so cannot give full details.

 

[Digit]

As I recall Dave the Enfield Connie was about the only bike that seemed to leak more oil parked than running! :lol:
Mind you Jap bikes weren't immune, I parked my Kawasaki alongside two others and all three were chucking oil out of the rocker box!

Roy.

 

[lathepilot]

Any mileage in using a thick grease to plug the gaps and top up with oil?

Sorry, I'm not a bike-guy- but puns are universal .

-It wouldn't be reliable though, as RE owners might testify eh?

Does Scrit have an alarm that goes off when someone types "wadkin"?
Does an illuminated "W" appear on brooding (cast) iron grey clouds. Is there a green flashing phone? If you're out there...

I suspect that there are a good few bike/car enthusiasts that have packed out a transfer box at some time in their lives. Without steering off-topic/forum are there any clues from that direction?

This isn't a rocket science sort of question, but my experience extends only so-far. I will get onto local general machine-part suppliers this week but advice from woodwork specific sources counts for something. I don't want to pilot this P/T to an early grave.

Your ongoing indulgence is appreciated.
Thom.

 

[Digit]

Any mileage in using a thick grease to plug the gaps and top up with oil?

I wouldn't have thought so.

Roy.

 

[CWatters]

Not sure what the viscosity is but perhaps check out something like this from local Stihl dealer..

http://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-322331/stih ... icant.html

(I believe the picture shows the smaller 80g size).

Grease isn't usually a good idea for a gearbox as it gets squeezed out of the mating surfaces and ends up spinning round stuck to the sides of the gears or stuck to the case leaving the gear teeth dry.

 

[lathepilot]

Colin, you're dead right. It just gets pushed aside leaving dry gears.

It seems that I can't win here- oil would run out, and grease wouldn't do the job!

Given this dichotomy, I suspect that the conclusion I eventually arrive at will be somewhat unsatisfactory.

Thom

 

[Digit]

The best option, though not necessarily the easiest is to stop the leak and use oil.

Roy.

 

[9fingers]

Thom,

There has got to be a proper solution to this using the oil that Wadkin suggest.
Wadkin machines are professionally engineered and must have been originally oil tight or at least with only minimal leakage.

I can only think there must have been an oil seal or leather washer in there to start with and that would be the way to effect a seal now.

Scrit seems to be missing at the moment both here and in the other place where others have noticed his absence too. Might be worth waiting a while if you are really stuck for ideas.

Sadly you are in the frozen wastes of the north, otherwise i could have popped in for a look :lol:

Bob