Where does fraud start?

[cammy9r]

Like the fella who knocks on the door and says they are doing the mains gas outside and he can connect up your gas bypassing the meter for a grand.
Does it, shows you the meter not turning, punter pays up.

2 weeks later the gas goes out.
Turns out he has just hooked up a portable gas bottle and buried it. :lol:

Con man ripping of a fraudster

 

[Wrongfoot]

I think some competition helps focus trades in useful ways. If they're good then they will be able to justify and maintain business at premium charge through reputation and goodwill. If not then competition will keep their quotes lean.

Up here there's a lot more work than builders result is everyone charges a premium regardless of quality and few are willing to take on even slightly challenging work.

Eventually I got a friend with a building business to bring a team up, even with 4weeks accommodation it was cheaper than local tradesmen and the work was quality.

Makes you wonder what the margins are even for the cowboys here? Also makes you wonder how they'd manage in a more competitive area?

Took me a while to find the professional ones and they need booking well in advance.

PS. I also wonder if too much competition pushes margins down to the point that even craftsmen have to cut corners to stay in business even if they'd prefer to do things properly?

 

[D_W]

An acquaintance did a job for someone (living in an area where people tend to have more money than sense). He had a quote for part of the job from a (rather up market) timber supplier of £800 then got the wood on line for £500. She accepted the original price, and this was what he charged her (the rest of the job was an good earner, so he didn't have to compensate for anything).
I would have been uncomfortable with this, but that's probably one reason I'm poor.

Here in the states, it's not typical for someone to go to the trouble of getting the materials without a markup. the bid is the legal document. The details on it, unless they are conflicting (like the terms say that the lumber is purchased and sold at cost), don't really matter too much - they're just an itemization.

As far as car repair goes here - at the authorized dealers, there's usually a parts guy. He's a separate part of the business vs. the service counter. if you are a mechanic, you go to the parts guy and buy parts. Prices are generally OK (not the cheapest, but not too bad). The service counter gets the parts from the parts guy. They mark them up -depending on what they are - 50-300%, and they go on the repair bill like that. If you're OK with their parts markup, that's fine.

I always thought it was interesting on warranty work that the parts guy would sell me an ignition coil for $42, but it was $120 on the bill from service - on top of shop fees, diagnostic and labor. That would've been the service price - warranty work knocked it back. For anyone with a car with coil over plug ignition, it takes about 15 minutes to diagnose and change (if you go through confirming it's the coil). I always wondered what it cost to get that done as service - if you were lucky and the dealer didn't find something else that "the mechanic strongly recommends" you get done the same day.

Instead of buying those coils for $42 at the parts counter, i now just get a set of four on ebay for $70, OEM and for a car that may use 4 of them over 10 years, I just skip the diagnostic. I'm not a mechanic. If it ever is something else, I'll address it later when the misfire code comes up in the same cylinder (it never has).

At any rate, most of the folks who don't charge more for supplies (but fetch them, and eat that time and pay for overhead) are either one man operations near retirement (guys who know they're on their last truck and who are comfortable seem to stop charging what it will cost to get the next one, etc) or they'll be working for someone else soon.

Of course, most of those folks will also tell the customer if they can't find supplies for less than $1000 that they need to make an adjustment "Because the lumber can't be found for less than $1150".

 

[JimB]

Lons said , Depends where you live. Try doing that in a rural community and you'll come unstuck very quickly indeed!
I come from a small village in Yorkshire and shonky tradesmen didn't get repeat business.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

As a customer, not a trader, one could easily be concerned by news about how Mr Builder or Mr Car Fixer or Mr Plumber is ripping off dear old ladies.

I appreciate that a job well done at a fair price doesn't make very good news, so views tend to be dominated by reports of the bad experiences.

When I have work done I try to be reasonably clear at the outset what an estimate includes and what it doesn't. As a life long DiYer for most things I have a reasonable idea.

I also ensure that I am updated with any material changes - either due to a change of requirement or other problems. A reasonable spec reduces the probability of both.

I now have a good relationship with a local builder and independant garage both of whom seem honest, professional, and pleasant.

But I have also ocassionally been exploited, albeit in a fairly minor way. Most recent was replacement of a TV aerial. Contractor arrived, looked at job, phone head office, quoted £450. I said no way, price reduced to £250 very quickly, accepted. Still too much but plenty of people would pay the first price which was frankly plain exploitative.

 

[Bm101]

'Most recent was replacement of a TV aerial. Contractor arrived, looked at job, phone head office, quoted £450. I said no way, price reduced to £250 very quickly, accepted. Still too much but plenty of people would pay the first price which was frankly plain exploitative. '

Mind you.
What's got four legs and goes bshhhhrrr iisssh h trvvv?

Rod Hull's TV

 

[DBT85]

'Most recent was replacement of a TV aerial. Contractor arrived, looked at job, phone head office, quoted £450. I said no way, price reduced to £250 very quickly, accepted. Still too much but plenty of people would pay the first price which was frankly plain exploitative. '

Mind you.

I can't abide prices that suddenly drop 40%. My only thought is "you were going to scam me, and you probably still are".

Like glazing salesmen!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'd have told him to swivel.

 

[Garno]

'Most recent was replacement of a TV aerial. Contractor arrived, looked at job, phone head office, quoted £450. I said no way, price reduced to £250 very quickly, accepted. Still too much but plenty of people would pay the first price which was frankly plain exploitative. '

Mind you.
What's got four legs and goes bshhhhrrr iisssh h trvvv?

Rod Hull's TV

As a kid I witnessed my mates dad fall off the roof whilst messing about with the T.V arial, I say witness what we actually saw was him going past the window with a look of sheer panic on his face. Surprisingly he was uninjured, I think even if he was it was still the funniest thing me and my mate has ever seen. That was also the first time either of us had experienced tears of laughter

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Needed some double glazing. Got three or four salesmen around . Said to each of them right at the outset I have no tolerance for "got to phone the manager, special discount this week etc etc". One chance to quote a fair/best price.

So I listen to an hour and a half of semi-bullsh only to be quoted an outrageous price. Let me have a look and make a phone call he said.

I showed him the door.

I have no problem with a fair price for decent work, even if it is not the cheapest. If someone tries to con you once, there should be no second chance!

 

[D_W]

I'd bet the reason these places operate like this is because it's what consumers really want. Consumers want to be told a price and then believe that they asked for a discount and got it.

There are subcontractors here who will take money losing jobs because taking them means less money lost than taking no jobs. If they have better jobs, they'll take those first, and if you're a "smart shopper", you'll go to last in line.

Aside from the amish, the only low price folks all the time are the guys close to retirement who know they're not buying another truck and who don't really need the money. One of those guys did my roof. Good price, truck rusting, but he's almost done. Some of the little details with trim and downspouts weren't done that well, but I think about the price ($9k vs. the next lowest offer of $14k) and feel like that little bit of funny workmanship on the noncritical stuff saved me a lot of money.

A whole lot of people here want the $14k or $18k bidder at $9k, and they want to complain about the truck or the lack of uniform for the roofers for the lower cost guy.

Those who want to run a small contracting or subcontracting business and be altruistic are soon taken advantage of by contractors or subcontractors and aren't in business long.