Chems
Established Member
Yes it is, I think I probably need to look into something to sharpen with then as well 
What Smoothing Plane
- Thread starter Chems
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
bugbear
Established Member
Chems":sy56q0i0 said:
Without sharpening equipment, and the knowledge/skill to use it, any plane (up to and include a Holtey) is a paperweight, BTW.
My two suggestions would be:
1) Record #5 1/2, old style (look for square corners on the blade), with a replacement blade.
2) Veritas low angle jack.
As an initial one-stop-shop on matters planish, I have a webpage:
http://www.geocities.com/plybench/plane.html
BugBear
Chems
Established Member
Thanks for all the info again, I think a second hand plane is the way to go?
What do you think of a No5 1/2 Record Used but in good condition plane for general smoothing?
What do you think of a No5 1/2 Record Used but in good condition plane for general smoothing?
bugbear
Established Member
Chems":3jnjzvch said:
As has been stated, that route involves less money, but more time and effort on your part. The essential Knowledge can (of course) be gained from books, the net, and this forum
Not normally considered a "pure smoother", but an excellent plane. It's rare enough to carry a slightly elevated price in the s/h market.
All planes can altered in purpose (to some extent) via tuning and setup
BugBear
bugbear
Established Member
Chems":3boko6yr said:
Heh. Given that good tools can compensate (to some extent) for limited knowledge or skill, it's the beginners who need good tools. It's the master craftsmen who could make good work with poor tools, although this is rarely put to the test ;-)
BugBear
lurker
Le dullard de la commune
BB is right!
All these people who keep telling you to buy a "fettle free" LN or whatever forget they already know how to tune a plane. The damn thing no matter how good out of box, only remains fettle free for at the most 2 hours work.
You have to learn how to set up a plane so do you want to make your mistakes on 300 quids worth of new steel or a £10 car booter?
Having said that, no matter how much you read, practice etc you really need to see & use a well set up tool. Do what I did and worm your way into a visit to one of the experts here.
All these people who keep telling you to buy a "fettle free" LN or whatever forget they already know how to tune a plane. The damn thing no matter how good out of box, only remains fettle free for at the most 2 hours work.
You have to learn how to set up a plane so do you want to make your mistakes on 300 quids worth of new steel or a £10 car booter?
Having said that, no matter how much you read, practice etc you really need to see & use a well set up tool. Do what I did and worm your way into a visit to one of the experts here.
MrJay
Established Member
A Veritas low angle jack will need honing and that's your lot - you don't need to learn how to flatten the iron, lap the sole, file the mouth, tweak the frog, fettle the chip breaker, replace the blade, extend the y-lever - yadda yadda. The plane is designed to be easy to adjust on the fly without the fuss or sloppiness of the Stanleys and Records of this world. Sure, you'll need to learn how to use the thing, but it's a hell of a lot easier than a standard bench plane and it'll do the jobs that I need several traditional bevel-down bench planes to do and do them very well.
It is precisely because I am aware of how much time and devotion that I invest in my planes that I am minded to recommend a low angle bevel up plane for those who don't want necessarily to become a black belt hand tool master plane nerd, but do want a serious hand plane that'll plane stuff and produce excellent results reliably. Yes it's expensive, yes expense is scary, however I believe that is the route that, all things considered, represents best value and by a margin. It is of course, not the only route.
On the 5 1/2...
All bench planes (Block planes and other specialty planes aren't included here), to some extent, smooth, flatten and make your stuff smaller than it used to be. Most bench planes, after fettling, are only really good at one of those tasks. Generally smaller planes (#1 - #4) are the easiest to make into smoothers, mid size planes (#5 & #6) are good for making your stuff smaller quickly but can be pushed into service for smoothing and or a bit of truing (especially if your power tools have already got you very close to flat and square) and longer planes (#7 & #8) - are best at getting your work flat, square and true.
It may or may not be obvious that smooth and flat are very different things. Smooth is a quality of the final surface, flat is a sound surface. I still thing you should be thinking in terms of flat as a priority and smooth as a nicety.
I think you'll like the extra width and stability of the 5 1/2, to my mind normal #5s feel quite narrow and tippy in use.
It is precisely because I am aware of how much time and devotion that I invest in my planes that I am minded to recommend a low angle bevel up plane for those who don't want necessarily to become a black belt hand tool master plane nerd, but do want a serious hand plane that'll plane stuff and produce excellent results reliably. Yes it's expensive, yes expense is scary, however I believe that is the route that, all things considered, represents best value and by a margin. It is of course, not the only route.
On the 5 1/2...
All bench planes (Block planes and other specialty planes aren't included here), to some extent, smooth, flatten and make your stuff smaller than it used to be. Most bench planes, after fettling, are only really good at one of those tasks. Generally smaller planes (#1 - #4) are the easiest to make into smoothers, mid size planes (#5 & #6) are good for making your stuff smaller quickly but can be pushed into service for smoothing and or a bit of truing (especially if your power tools have already got you very close to flat and square) and longer planes (#7 & #8) - are best at getting your work flat, square and true.
It may or may not be obvious that smooth and flat are very different things. Smooth is a quality of the final surface, flat is a sound surface. I still thing you should be thinking in terms of flat as a priority and smooth as a nicety.
I think you'll like the extra width and stability of the 5 1/2, to my mind normal #5s feel quite narrow and tippy in use.
Chems
Established Member
After your huge amount of fantastic input, I won the no holds barred bidding war for this Record No 5 1/2.
Cost me the huge price of £26 with £9.99 shipping.
I hope Ive chosen my first plane well and now just need to learn this art of "fettling"
Cost me the huge price of £26 with £9.99 shipping.
I hope Ive chosen my first plane well and now just need to learn this art of "fettling"
Chems
Established Member
I also got 4 1220mm sash clamps for £31 and considering they cost £9 from axminster I though that was a bargin as well!
Im obviously going to have to do some serious reading to get upto speed and Im going to be buying about £100 worth of Chesnut tomorrow.
The only thing left to decide is weather or not to spend the £399 on the Axminster P/T or buy a smaller one such as the 6 inch SIP bench top planer thicknesser model. Do I really need the big one?
Im obviously going to have to do some serious reading to get upto speed and Im going to be buying about £100 worth of Chesnut tomorrow.
The only thing left to decide is weather or not to spend the £399 on the Axminster P/T or buy a smaller one such as the 6 inch SIP bench top planer thicknesser model. Do I really need the big one?
chem,
One of the most important keys to using hand tools, especially planes is the matter of sharpening. Suggest you read Brent Beach on sharpening.
Sorry I don't have the expertise to give you the address, but just Google "Brent Beach" and his site will come up. I've bookmarked it and refer to it regularly. Derek Cohen has modified Brent's ideas and come up with the ten cent sharpening system. Both show you don't have to spend a fortune on sharpening accessories. like jigs and stones.
How important sharp tools are was illustrated to me when one day I picked up my Veritas jack plane with 50degree blade and found it very hard work to push the thing through the wood. Picked up my HNT Gordon where the angle was 60degrees and it just flew through the wood. 10degrees extra angle should have made it more difficult to push. Another thing to bear in mind is to lubricate the sole of the plane often when planing. It makes a huge difference. You can use linseed oil though I mainly use a small block of beeswax and scribble it on the sole during a planing session.
Jerry
War does not decide who is right. War only decides who is left.[/img]
One of the most important keys to using hand tools, especially planes is the matter of sharpening. Suggest you read Brent Beach on sharpening.
Sorry I don't have the expertise to give you the address, but just Google "Brent Beach" and his site will come up. I've bookmarked it and refer to it regularly. Derek Cohen has modified Brent's ideas and come up with the ten cent sharpening system. Both show you don't have to spend a fortune on sharpening accessories. like jigs and stones.
How important sharp tools are was illustrated to me when one day I picked up my Veritas jack plane with 50degree blade and found it very hard work to push the thing through the wood. Picked up my HNT Gordon where the angle was 60degrees and it just flew through the wood. 10degrees extra angle should have made it more difficult to push. Another thing to bear in mind is to lubricate the sole of the plane often when planing. It makes a huge difference. You can use linseed oil though I mainly use a small block of beeswax and scribble it on the sole during a planing session.
Jerry
War does not decide who is right. War only decides who is left.[/img]
Chems
Established Member
Ive added that to my bookmarks as well, thanks!
It should arrive this week, first thing to do will be to see how well it works straight off the bat. Secondly Im going to strip it all down and give it a good clean get it looking like new, flatten the sole then move onto blade sharpening.
It should arrive this week, first thing to do will be to see how well it works straight off the bat. Secondly Im going to strip it all down and give it a good clean get it looking like new, flatten the sole then move onto blade sharpening.
lurker
Le dullard de la commune
Chems,
If you modify your profile to give an indication where you are, I bet somone will offer to give you hands on fettling help
If you modify your profile to give an indication where you are, I bet somone will offer to give you hands on fettling help
Chems
Established Member
Done.
Im hoping the plane, my bargin sash clamps and my brand new Axminster P/T will arrive tomorrow.....big spending has gone on.
Im hoping the plane, my bargin sash clamps and my brand new Axminster P/T will arrive tomorrow.....big spending has gone on.
bugbear
Established Member
Chems":1rzezcj6 said:
Slightly high, but it looks like a good tool.
If you can take it apart and photograph the parts, we'll be happy to guide you through tune up.
BugBear
Chems
Established Member
Obviously different members would expect different prices, someone else said that was reasonable!
I will take it apart and get lots of photos.
I will take it apart and get lots of photos.
skipdiver
Established Member
Would be interesting to see.I have just "acquired" some old planes including a moulding plane.One of them is the same as yours.I would like to get some better irons for them and get them "singing" as my old woodwork teacher called it when they were cutting right.
bugbear
Established Member
Chems":1f8ygmlq said:
Agreed. A total price of 35 quid for a good 5 1/2 is well below any online dealer price (that I know of)
But at a car boot (you may have to attend several, of course) I would expect a plane like that to be around 15-20 GPB, and no postage.
Of course, at a car boot, there may be no tools, and you need to know what you're looking at; caveat emptor!
With all things second hand, there's a playoff between time and money.
If you can keep looking, you'll eventually get a bargain
But if your need/want is urgent, a higher price will get something immediately.
There's no right/wrong in these matters; it's all a question of degree.
BugBear
lurker
Le dullard de la commune
Spot on again BB.
I'm building up my plane " choice (its not a C**lct*ion!!), but am in no rush.
I regularly go to a boot sale about 2 miles from home.
9 times out of 10 its a waste of 30 mins & 50p (entrance)and I walk away empty handed
Then the other week, I got 2 X 4s & a 5 for 20 quid off one stall. And a 102 for 75p off another :lol: :lol: :lol:
Brings out the "hunter" in me - sad I know :roll: :roll:
I'm building up my plane " choice (its not a C**lct*ion!!), but am in no rush.
I regularly go to a boot sale about 2 miles from home.
9 times out of 10 its a waste of 30 mins & 50p (entrance)and I walk away empty handed
Then the other week, I got 2 X 4s & a 5 for 20 quid off one stall. And a 102 for 75p off another :lol: :lol: :lol:
Brings out the "hunter" in me - sad I know :roll: :roll:
bugbear
Established Member
lurker":12ym3kla said:
You "unmentionable" person, you!
BugBear
