West systems Epoxy coating advice.

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rafezetter

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I've been considering using this epoxy system as a topcoat for a desk, but I'd like to know if the usual rule of coating all sides of exposed wood still applies with this, or can I get away with a PU sealer on the underside or should I use a sealer on everything then epoxy on top? Most of the instructional vids simply talk about it's application not what they did before that.

If there's anyone who's used this stuff can give me any hands on pointers I'd appreciate it.
 
It would make sense to have something to balance the thick epoxy film on the show surface, but I'm not sure that a polyurethane sealer would be enough to prevent cupping and other warping. In most examples of epoxy resin finishing on just one side I can recall there's always been stout structures on the opposite side to hold the panel flat, e.g., restaurant tables with wide lipping all round, bar tops fixed to stout framework. There was (still is I suppose) a fashion for chunky furniture made out of thick slabs of wood and bits of tree trunk for bases, particularly in America - coffee tables weighing 600 - 700 lbs for example, and in these cases the poured epoxy I recall was nearly always slathered on all exposed surfaces.

I'd be wary of just coating one surface, especially if there's not much bracing on the other side, and perhaps an experiment with a couple of small disposable panels would be useful, one fully coated and the other coated one side only. Slainte.
 
slightly tangential to the o.p. - I've used West products but years ago discovered an alternative epoxy developed specially for impregnating and surface coating - SP Systems SP320 with the low-viscosity hardener. It's used a lot on boats (including mulit-million pound race boats), it flows out really well. Just in case it's of interest.
 
If it is to be exposed to direct sunlight you may have problems with UV degradation over time. This is why epoxy sheathed boats are always painted.

Jim
 
rafezetter":1kkbx2wj said:
I've been considering using this epoxy system as a topcoat for a desk, but I'd like to know if the usual rule of coating all sides of exposed wood still applies with this, or can I get away with a PU sealer on the underside or should I use a sealer on everything then epoxy on top? Most of the instructional vids simply talk about it's application not what they did before that.

If there's anyone who's used this stuff can give me any hands on pointers I'd appreciate it.


I can't comment from personal experience, but Bob Flexner, a widely published expert on wood finishing has dismissed this 'usual rule' as a myth.

Bob Flexner at woodshopnews.com":1kkbx2wj said:
It’s a widespread myth among woodworkers and finishers that to prevent warping it’s necessary to balance moisture-vapor exchange by finishing both sides of wood.

In fact, finishing the undersides of tabletops or the insides of cabinets or chests has only limited impact on reducing the likelihood of future problems. The only reasons to go to the trouble are for looks and feel — both of which are perfectly legitimate. But neither has anything to do with stabilizing the wood.

Causes of warps
There are three causes of warping. The first and most important is inadequate kiln drying. Unless the moisture content of the wood is brought into equilibrium with the average humidity conditions of the location in which the wood is to be used, it will continue to adjust.

If the wood is quartersawn, it will shrink across the grain. If it is plainsawn, it will also warp (cup) on the sap side as the longer, outer sap-side rings shrink more than the shorter, inner heart-side rings.

The second, and less common, cause is the wood (furniture, etc.) being moved from a very damp to a very dry climate, or visa versa. The wood adjusts to the new humidity conditions and may cup if it is plainsawn.

The third, and still less common, cause is repeated exposure to water on the topside leading to compression shrinkage and cupping — no matter what the annular ring orientation.

In none of these cases does finishing the undersides or insides provide any significant resistance to warping.
 
thanks for the replies - the west epoxy choice was purely as I've no other experience and it seems to be the most widely used. I'll look at the other sort as well Xy Mosian.

The desk itself was / is going to be pretty chunky anyway but I'll keep in mind about possibly beefing it up.

That article KevM is informative and made a lot of sense - lol but being me I might do a test anyway :)

All food for thought, thanks.
 
KevM":2rz24j07 said:
I can't comment from personal experience, but Bob Flexner ... dismissed this 'usual rule' as a myth.
I can though. I don't think Mr Flexner is wrong on all counts. I do think he over states some factors and omits discussing others.

His emphasis on only using kiln dried timber I think is overplayed. There's a lot of good internal furniture made with air dried wood. The key I believe is adequate construction rather than kiln drying. For instance large pedestal tables may be polished only on the show surface and edges, but the underside is usually heavily reinforced with cross bracing. Standard four legged table constructions rely on the rails to hold the tops flat (and sometimes cross bracing). Drawer fronts that are only polished on the front are usually fairly small and the corner joinery is usually sufficient to hold the front flat. These strategies don't always work, but the cause of any warping could be a range of factors, e.g., wood that's either too dry or too wet for the final place in service, pieces moved from a very dry atmosphere to a much damper one or vice versa, inappropriate grain pattern for the job, e.g., radially sawn wood might have been a better choice than tangentially sawn, etc.

Where he discusses cabinets, it's true there are many examples where only the show faces are polished, but he doesn't explore the fact that a cabinet interior frequently creates its own relatively stable micro climate, more stable than the exterior, i.e., changes in external RH are more volatile than changes in the cabinet's interior RH because doors and drawers may not be opened frequently.

In addition, some of the traditional finishes, still in use, offer little or no barrier to water vapour. Into this category fall the pure oils and waxes, so finishing only one side wouldn't much affect adsorption and desorption of water vapour into and out of the wood on either the polished side or unpolished side, assuming more or less equal exposure to atmospheric RH variations. Film finishes are more resistant to water vapour, although not impervious, and I have quite frequently seen panels finished with this finish type on just one side cup one way or another, usually concave on the polished side. Finishes such as shellac, varnishes, lacquers and poured epoxy resins fall into this group.

I believe there are more factors in play than Mr Flexner discusses. This is just my opinion of course, but it is based upon quite a number of years experience in the furniture profession. Other furniture makers may have a different take. I do think rafezetter needs to consider his flatness maintaining options carefully if his plan is to pour a thick epoxy finish on just one side of panels that go to make up his desk. Slainte.
 
I agree. The point about kiln dried timber is, I think, a red herring. Kiln dried timber can be unreliable if it has been unsuitably stored and will still be less pleasant than air dried to use. Given the choice I would always use air dried but in terms of measures to ensure equilibrium I would make no distinction between them.

Jim
 
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