Welfare reform bill.

[RogerS]

+2

 

[RogerM]

+3

 

[Benchwayze]

I can't be pineappled with politicians normally , but Three Cheers for David Cameron for having the balls to stand up and be counted =D>

Should have been sorted out long ago. There should be NO career layabouts, if you want to live a good lifestyle get a job, benefits should be to meet your basic essentials while you seek work and if you want to produce a tribe of children then bloody well be prepared to work to keep them, don't expect the country to undertake your responsibility.
I also saw an immigrant woman on the tv complaining that she might have to move house and it was unfair :shock: well lifes a ***** isn't it :roll:

And didn't she look well-fed, and wasn't her house luxurious? yes on both counts. I don't care where she comes from. She is living a better life than any of our hardworking dedicated Nurses, et al. :twisted:

 

[DIY Stew]

Perhaps the money the government save can be put to good use i.e. supporting local businesses to ensure local people are in gainful employment.

Please let me explain.
A local international employer has issued redundancy notices to its workforce, it has a full order book and is making a profit, so why close? It is my understanding that it cant meet the emissions standards set by Europe so it is cheaper to close than upgrade the plant. The town I live in (once the largest mining village in Europe) will become a ghost town nearly 600 people will be unemployed, mostly men, I doubt whether many of them will find alternative employment locally.
They were very well paid but their savings will not last forever, so they will end up claiming benefits. I am fortunate, I had a long career in the fire brigade before I was pensioned out because of illness, unlike my two neighbours who will join the queue at the 'labour exchange' and possibly end up as till operators at Asda!
I totally agree, it is wrong that anyone should live off the welfare state but please remember some of the unemployed are unemployed through no fault of their own.

Stew

 

[Digit]

I totally agree, it is wrong that anyone should live off the welfare state but please remember some of the unemployed are unemployed through no fault of their own.

Absolutely! Having been made redundent on 3 occasions I can only agree. Take Camborne pete, (if I may Pete). In my world for as long as Pete can demonstrate that he is serious about finding another job, or he's deemed too old to re-employ or too ill or infirm now, then I believe that the welfare system should support him, to the degree of helping with any mortgage etc.
But those who show an unwillingness to work, and there are some, I speak from experience, they should have their welfare progressively reduced till they damn well do take the idea of working seriously.
And good luck for the future Pete.

Roy.

 

[Max Power]

Yes best of luck in finding work Pete. Anyone genuinely wanting work has my full sympathy

 

[Dibs-h]

Couldn't agree more with Roy and Alan.

Best of luck Pete!

Dibs

 

[No skills]

I'm glad to see there is at least a few people that have similar views on the benifits capping as myself, I have no problem with the state helping genuine out of work cases but there needs to be controls on it - or monitoring, thats a better word, not making efforts to get work and refusing suitable jobs should result in zero payout. I wish my post deduction wage was 26k!

The biggest problem I see with the cuts is the rent pay out, this really does need to be done carefully - cant blanket cut this.

 

[Digit]

The problem with rents payed by the government is that they distort the market, look at the 'London Weighting' system, people push themselves to the limit to live there, for what ever reason, and as soon as the weighting kicks in prices rise.
Business rates, for example, are priced at what the business can pay, if they raise their prices, eventually the rates will also rise.
Pay a nurse a higher wage in London and eventually their costs will rise to match the extra.
Landlords now know that they can expect to face a limit on what they can recieve from the government, they will respond to the market.

Roy.

 

[cambournepete]

Aw, thanks guys!

I am looking for work (IT/software anyone?), but already one recruitment agent has said I'm hard to place.
I'm sure I'll get a job, I just don't know when or how much it'll pay.
I now realise how lucky I was before I got made redundant 18 months ago...

 

[Lons]

Aw, thanks guys!

I am looking for work (IT/software anyone?), but already one recruitment agent has said I'm hard to place.
I'm sure I'll get a job, I just don't know when or how much it'll pay.
I now realise how lucky I was before I got made redundant 18 months ago...

I really feel for you.

It's a very long time ago for me now and the words "you're over qualified" which I guess is what you hear, is a horrible thing to get when trying to persuade a new employer that you're willing to accept a lower position and salary to get back in the market.

I was lucky to get something but had to move my family 100 miles as well as getting home only at weekends during the 8 months it took to sell my house.
I had 2 very young kids, moved for half my previous salary and from a large 4 bed detatched to a very small 3 bed semi. More than a little depressing but allowed me to work my way back up the ladder again.
I almost didn't bother to go to my interview due to the distance :roll: but the guy gave me a chance even though he knew I would use it as a stopgap and I tried to give him value for money during the 12 months I was with him.

Best wishes Pete, keep plugging away as you're likely to get a break when you least expect it.

Bob

 

[Jacob]

The inflated rent argument is a non-sequitur Jacob. If the landlord is faced with the same reality as the person who has their rent paid for them he will either, a, sell up, or b, reduce the rent.
It's Maggies 'Market Forces' old son. I do not expect to see London et al, over flowing with empty properties, do you?

Roy.

It already is http://www.emptyhomes.com/
10,000 apparently, but that's not counting second or under-occupied homes, etc etc
and you will see London with an increasing population of homeless people.

Market forces don't provide for people who can't afford what is on offer, whether it's housing, health, education, you name it. Markets aren't interested in the hard up - there's no money in it!

"People who dismiss the unemployed and dependent as “parasites” fail to understand economics and parasitism. A successful parasite is one that is not recognized by its host, one that can make its host work for it without appearing as a burden. Such is the ruling class in a capitalist society."

Just heard that the Lords have rejected the Welfare reforms. Good news.

 

[Max Power]

I don't think anybody on here would dismiss anyone unemployed by circumstance rather than choice as a parasite Jacob.
Any one of us could find ourselves in that scenario
Its career layabouts that wouldn't want a job if it came gift-wrapped that I object to :evil:

 

[Digit]

It already is

Eh Jacob, as the cap hasn't yet gone into operations AFAIK quite what does your link has to do with what I said?

you will see London with an increasing population of homeless people.

Yep! In many cases due to the fact that they have left home/run away from home/absconded from care homes, because of alcoholism/drug addiction/illegal immigration, as dealt with regularly by such charities as the Sally army.
As yet your comments have no basis in fact.
It would require you to be a financial wizard to explain to me why a landlord would leave a house empty simply because the DSS refuses to pay what he is asking, would you care to try?
You delight in the Lord's decision. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you oppose the idea of the House of Lords?
There was an interview in the press some time ago with a Dutch national living here 'cos our welfare was more generous than in Holland. I object to that being a reason for living here as a starter.
He was moaning blind about any cap as he had a wife and 8 children, he claimed that as a practising catholic forcing him to limit his number off spring by refusing to support them all was an attack on his religion.
He then agreed that he would have to have no further off spring.
Your comments?
Please don't bother with any anti Daily Mail etc rants, just answer for a change.
Ta!

Such is the ruling class in a capitalist society.

Would you not include the ruling class in a non-capitalist society?

Roy.

 

[Dibs-h]

Aw, thanks guys!

I am looking for work (IT/software anyone?), but already one recruitment agent has said I'm hard to place.
I'm sure I'll get a job, I just don't know when or how much it'll pay.
I now realise how lucky I was before I got made redundant 18 months ago...

Pete

Have you thought about going Contracting? The pay can be far higher - a 3 month contract in some cases paying the equivalent of 12months PAYE. Yes - you are likely to have to travel away during the week, but the SE does hold a lot of potential.

Dibs

 

[cambournepete]

Have you thought about going Contracting?

Yup - quite happy to do perm or contract.

 

[Jacob]

................
There was an interview in the press some time ago with a Dutch national living here 'cos our welfare was more generous than in Holland. I object to that being a reason for living here as a starter.
He was moaning blind about any cap as he had a wife and 8 children, he claimed that as a practising catholic ...

How many unemployed Dutch catholics with eight children have moved to Britain? What are the latest figures?
Is this a serious threat to civilisation as we know it?
What ever happened to single mothers on benefits? I thought they were most favoured enemies of the state. Have they been demoted?
What about the single mother vegetarian lesbian muslim women students on benefits? Are things looking up at all?

 

[Kalimna]

Jacob - why should I, or anyone else who actually lifts a finger to go out and work, not feel agrieved that there are a number of people claiming benefits who have no desire to work?
Why shouldnt the benefits be capped so that being in work is more financially sound for the claimant than being out of work? (Obviously excepting those who are not actively trying to find work and other exceptions as mentioned in this thread).
And your parasite quote, whilst not your own perhaps, shows a lack of understanding of what a parasite is. Anyone with the malaria parasite might just feel they are burdened. If they havent yet died.

And perhaps we would know how many dutch catholics with multiple children are here claiming benefits, but I doubt they would fill in the census.

Cheers,
Adam, a hacked off public sector (anaesthetist) worker

 

[Digit]

What about the single mother vegetarian lesbian muslim women students on benefits?

You're trying your old tricks of moving the goal posts again Jacob, give it up it, doesn't work.
Now about the house of lords? The facts that the caps that you say are so devastaing that haven't yet been put into law??
Would you care to answer those?

The subject of the Dutch national seems to have been totally misunderstood by you, or deliberately twisted, so I'll spell it out in words of one syllable to you. Here goes, do you think it reasonable that a man should father children that he knows, and understands, that he does not have the financies to support? And that to the extent that he moves from one country to another simply so that he can continue in that course of action?
There we are Jacob, some more questions for you to duck!

Roy.

 

[Lons]

................
There was an interview in the press some time ago with a Dutch national living here 'cos our welfare was more generous than in Holland. I object to that being a reason for living here as a starter.
He was moaning blind about any cap as he had a wife and 8 children, he claimed that as a practising catholic ...

How many unemployed Dutch catholics with eight children have moved to Britain? What are the latest figures?
Is this a serious threat to civilisation as we know it?
What ever happened to single mothers on benefits? I thought they were most favoured enemies of the state. Have they been demoted?
What about the single mother vegetarian lesbian muslim women students on benefits? Are things looking up at all?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Absolute c**p - A deliberate attempt to deflect a perfectly reasonable argument!

Why any normal tax paying working or retired person should object to a cap of £26000 NETT being applied to benefits is beyond reason. The statistics if they are to be believed are that average salary is a fraction over £26000 GROSS. If as is the concensis that a lot of people are earning a fortune then the vast majority must earn well under that figure. Does that not imply as claimed that there is little incentive for the workshy to get off their backsides and find work. (Don't take that out of context as I have already stated my view that those trying to help themselves should be supported to do so).

£26000 is still far too high IMO and child benefit should very definately be included in the calculations.

It's the children who suffer and the a******s I've come across just drink, smoke and fritter the money so throwing more at them just doesn't work.

Disability should be closely looked at as well. Whilst all deserving disabled people should be fully supported, it is far too easy to dupe the system and I know 4 personally who do exactly that.
One a 43 year old who has worked no more than a few months in his whole life - has 3 kids by 2 partners but manages to dig and plant a large allotment with a "serious back injury".
Another who gets both government and police benefits after "falling over a binbag" many years ago whilst in the force and is allegedly crippled. I've seen him break concrete with a hammer I would struggle to lift :roll:
I've already posted in a previous thread about the mothers / daughters I've encountered who had kids to get a local authority house. Really P****s me off!

Bob