Water resistant MDF or Ply for kitchen cabinets...?

[Stanleythecat]

Well a friend of mine built his own kitchen sourcing it all 'locally', every door has warped, things have shrunk etc. It has been very helpful for me to see. Since then I have been using MDF as a stable material for fitted wardrobes, but this didn't come from B&Q/homebase etc and they are going on strong. I will also be aclimatising any timber that I bring in.

We have a lathams near to us so I'll see what they can offer. As you say, this will justify going to one of the larger suppliers.

Thanks again Nathan

 

[chippy1970]

Biscuits and pocket hole screws will work great with mfc. I use dominoes and pocket hole screws. I have a rail saw for cutting sheet goods but to be honest any mfc I've had lately I've just had it cut up to size and edged for me by cutwrights. I just do an online cutting list then pay and collect a few days later. If you have a similar supplier near you it would save you time.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[RobinBHM]

As per other suggestions, mfc is the easiest option. Kronospan or Egger are both good. The board is made in 18mm with sheet sizes around 2800 x 2070, trade prices starting from £45.00 plus the dreaded. I tend to simply screw the carcases together with Confirmat screws from Hafele using the special drill bit.

Using a front frame construction allows for side cheeks where required so screwing the cabinets together is fine. I make the front frame rails 1mm smaller than the inside carcase width then screw the front frame on with battens. Front frames can be made just by screwing together -which works best if the shank holes are drilled on a drill press then assembly is done on a large flat board.

I think a wood grain mfc for the carcase interiors can be a lovely contrast to a hand painted kitchen.

 

[oddsocks]

I tend to simply screw the carcases together with Confirmat screws from Hafele using the special drill bit.

I'd not heard of those before but a quick google shows how useful they are!
Thanks

Dave

 

[Stanleythecat]

Wow! Thanks for the advice. I hadn't heard of confirmats either.

What size would I use for 18mm board then?

I contacted Latham's and unfortuantely they only cut if you order 35 sheets or more! ... thats a little more than I need! On the hunt now for a company in the bristol area who will cut the sheets for me.

Leo

 

[RobinBHM]

The 50mm length ones are ideal for 18mm carcase material

I use 264.43.194 with the 001.22.485 drill (stepped 5mm -7mm -10mm)

The 4mm allen headed screws are much more positive for driving with a cordless. Cutting a length off an allen key works or a proper screwdriver hex bit.

The great thing about these is that the carcase parts are cramped and then through screwed. Once the first corner is together it becomes easier to line up parts. With care they can be disassembled as well.

The best method is to use the cramps made for this (003.73.268) but they are now stupidly expensive. For fixed shelves the easiest way to assemble is to cut 2 pieces of board to the exact measurement of the shelf spacing.

I often buy just a few sheets from Meyer timber. Perhaps your best bet may be to call in to your local joinery shop and ask them if they could add to their next sheet material order (I always seem to be ordering sheets for site chippies, If you were local Id be happy to get some in for you). You could try Timbmet.



Robin

 

[Woodmonkey]

Try Avon ply they have a cutting service and don't think there is a minimum order.

 

[Shultzy]

Leo, I used pocket hole screws for my kitchen carcases which means you don't need clamps, and that includes the face frames. There are many kitchen posts which will give you ideas, including mine which I finished a month a go.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/kitchen-refurb-t64150.html

 

[Stanleythecat]

Thanks Robin, those clamps look just the job, is there a jig alternative that anyone can recommend for corner clamping?

And thanks Shultzy, I have a pocket hole jig that I bought a year ago and thought I was going to use birch ply... until I found out how much it cost! I made some draws from ply from B&Q which was a big mistake as the poket hole screws just obliterated it! It was so soft I couldn't even clamp it easily as the clamps delaminated the ply! Would it work on MFC? (obs I won't be using that for drawers!)

So it also come down to material, what to use MFC? MR MDF? Ply (what grade for carcases?!!)? Pocket holes are good for ply and solid wood but I understand no so on the other sheet materials?

So my can of worms has grown! MFC sounds like it could work but I won't be able to cut it without chipping it with the tools I have. The others need painting... hmm!

Leo

 

[morfa]

I've just built three cabinets out of Oak veneered MDF. I used a track / plunge saw to cut them up and then pocket hole jigs to join them all together. I wouldn't say I'm that experienced, but I've been woodworking for a year or two now. I've really struggled to get the carcasses perfectly straight and square. They're ok, but there's gaps here and there. Not massive, but still, they exist.

The pocket hole jigs will work on the MDF, you just have to be careful. Really careful. Also use the coarse kreg screws. Pocket holes are great I reckon. Really quick and easy to use. But if you have the biscuit jointer, then that might be a good way to go. But for most non-pros (and probably a lot of tradesmen) the pocket holes can't be beaten for ease of use and speed. Especially when you think a jig & bit will cost you £30.

The 18mm MDF cost me £41 inc VAT. IIRC, the Birch ply was £48 a sheet. I think that was inc VAT. Could be wrong tho. However for the sake of a few quid, I would *not* buy the MDF again. Get the Birch ply. It's much more solid, harder to damage (on all levels) works better with the pocket holes.

But really (and I say this has having just gone through the pain of putting together my own kitchen a few days ago) it's probably only a little bit more expensive to get someone else to make the carcasses for you. Then you can focus in on doing a really good job on the face frame and the doors. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt and I'm not sure I'd want to go and do it again. Well maybe now I've got a better idea of what I'm doing, I would.

So yeah, BB/BB Birch ply, pocket holes and good luck!

 

[Stanleythecat]

Thanks Morfa.

I'm not a kitchen fitter/joiner etc just a chap having a go I suppose! My naivety probably shines through but we have a smallish kitchen and by building it myself I think we can maximise the useful space we have; not just multiples of 600mm. That said my work doesn't give me the chance to look back at a finished job anymore and really enjoy projects like this where I get to learn again. Sounds romanticised but to build something of value that is used everyday by my family will give me huge satisfaction!

Is BB/BB the grade of ply by any chance? And yes I'm really being put off the MDF however the MR MDF is still a feint contender as I can cut it with the tools I have.

 

[morfa]

Stan - I'm not a kitchen fitter either and it's much harder than it looks. You can normally get cabinets which are 300/400/500 - wide. So that should allow you to get a good fit in the kitchen. Having the cabinets deeper is a pain as then you can't reach the back easily. Or can't reach the back of the worktop. If you can live with the mistakes that you'll make, then you're better than me. They wind me up something chronic.

However if you've got the time and don't mind that it won't be that much cheaper than buying it all in, then it's worth a go. Especially if you factor in tools, as that's a major cost.

You're about an hours drive from my place, so if you want to pop over and I can show you what I've done then you're welcome to take a look. I can tell you all my mistakes then.

Yes, BB is the quality of the sides. This link explains it all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plywood#Grades

 

[Stanleythecat]

Very kind. Thanks Morfa.

I've yet to dig the footings for the building so I'm a little while away from actual cabinet construction and just doing my homework! I might well pop over nearer the time if that's still ok then as it would be good to pick someone elses brain anyway.

Leo

 

[morfa]

Hopefully I'll be totally finished by then and it'll look smart.

My kitchen thread is here - wip-kitchen-worktops-and-cabinets-t76957.html

 

[fluffflinger]

As somebody who works in the kitchen industry can I make the folowing observations. MFC is the material of choice for almost all kitchen manufacturers and if I was you that is what I would stick with but quite frankly I would buy them in rather than try to construct yourself.

I have read this thread and I can't see any mention of edging MFC. Not an easy job to do without a commercial edgebander and trust me cut up a sheet of MFC for a cabinets and see how many edges require treatment.

We use an independent company to make all our carcasses with either 0.4 or 2mmABS edging dependent on the specification of the kitchen. They will make them in any colour (Egger make maybe 100 different coloured boards) and at prices that are so reasonable that I would never consider or advise anybody to build them from scratch. They will also make any cabinet any size so if you need a bespoke solution it is available. So buy them in you will not save money doing them yourself and without an edgbander you will struggle to get a professional finish.

Then spend your time efforts and skills on making nice doors, let's be honest that's the bit people will admire and don't underestimate good planning there are more tricks to good design than you could imagine. I'm not advocating using and abusing but all kitchen companies will offer free design services, although we are seriously thinking of starting to charge, so go out and get some ideas. You might, if you are lucky get a measured drawing and can take that to a manufacturer.

Don't be offended it's just my opinion.

 

[nathandavies]

fluffinger what company do you use for your cabinets?

nathan

 

[fluffflinger]

Handcraft in Thrapston, although they are expanding and moving to Wellingborough. Can't recommend they highly enough, they will make anything any shape size or configuation.

The other consideration I should have mentioned for the OP is having them fit your drawers system in the factory just leaving you to fit the fronts. Their buying power will save you cash and again time. We almost exclusively use use Blum for all our hardware.

 

[the_g_ster]

Good to see this thread up, I am just in the process of finishing my kitchen.

So far, I have used oak faced MDF for the bases, finished with Rustins, that painted sides, with dulux diamond. It's holding up well, apart from a mark under the sink from a fabric softener bottle. Even the pots and pans cabinet has held up well too, so am pleased as the first I have done.

I am now finishing, but making a wall cabinet to go over a doorway and above a fridge. I have used BB ply, and is a faff to paint but slowly coming together. Some tips I have found, passed on by all of you guys at some point over the years:

- Look for european ply, more expensive, but better.
- Avoid far eastern ply if you can, it will have voids in the layers, and won't take screws well, worse than B&Q stuff even
- Finish the boards before you make the cabinet, then, if you have something like a festool and you're careful, you will only need to do a final layer.
- Buy the boards in person if you can, is annoying when they look like a banana board

What do people think of some kind of inlay in the inside of the cabinets? I would like to do a backlit cabinet in the next house, with glass shelves and a glass base. That could have painted side/wood/mfc but then the glass shelves would take pans etc without anything than a wipe over.

I guess the issue could be condensation on the glass, as if the house is cold, and you start cooking, then moisture will condense on it? Thoughts?

I think it would look pretty cool if you opened a cabinet and it was backlit and looked good. I'm putting in down lights in the display cabinets I am making right now to take a teaset and some silverware.

 

[Benchwayze]

I think I'd rather try ply or MDF to be honest as it will be a painted finish. Doesn't conti board require more bespoke fixtures and other specialist tools to work with it?

Not necessarily. Maybe old plane blade if you're going to use a plane.
You might want to score the surface before you cut, or put masking tape over the 'exit' side for the saw. Otherwise, work with the good face down, if you're cutting with a circular saw. Also arrange for any ragged edges to be hidden by adjacent cabinets. I think moisture resistant MDF should be okay. A bit heavy, but once in situ they won't move.

Best for me is the water resistant plywood. Expensive, but it's for my own use.