Walnut and painted WIP

[JonnyD]

Its been a while since i did a project on here so here goes. Basically its going to be a walnut veneered birch ply carcased kitchen with a painted beech front.

I ordered about 65m2 of black walnut veneer from capital crispins and got 4 sequential packs of veneer from 250mm to 320mm wide. First job was to crosscut the veneer pack to the required length which was done on the table saw.

A piece of sacrificial mdf is held ontop of the pack to help keep it flat when cutting

Over the years ive jointed the veneer in many ways using the planer, festool saw, panel saw but i find the best way is to use the shooting board.

The board is as basic as it comes a piece of mfc with some 9mm mrmdf screwed to it which is screwed down to the bench to stop it moving.

The veneer pack is placed on the jig with 3mm ish overhang

A 25mm piece of mdf is then placed on top

The problem with edging any veneers is keeping the veneers from sliding around whilst they are being jointed. The mezzanine floor above the bench comes in very handy here and a few few props are absolutely brilliant at keeping the veneer in place and clamping the veneers together so you can shoot a perfect edge and very quick to setup.

I used to use my stanley no 7 but the LAJ is now weapon of choice

Just plane away until the plane stops cutting and your done 24 leaves at a time

your left with lots of fine shavings

The panels can now be joined together starting with some masking tape to temporarily hold them

veneer tape is then put across the edge at about 100mm centres

the masking tape is then removed and veneer tape put along the seams

the back

Ive got about 70 layons jointed up ready and the glue was delivered today so hopefully pressing will start tomorrow

DougB kindly turned me a sample knob which we then had made on a copy lathe and have made some supports to allow them to be painted gloss black

Thanks for looking

cheers

Jon

 

[Paul Chapman]

Blimey, what a lot of knobs :shock: :lol:

Interesting thread.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Doug B]

As Paul says, interesting thread Jon, what glue will you be using for the veneer?


Cheers.


PS, I`ve never had my knob copied before, first time for everything :lol: :lol:

 

[JonnyD]

cheers chaps hopefully this will be a very nice job when its done. The glue is a uf resin called borden ul39 a bit like cascamite but goes off in about an hour. Theres about 80 knobs there thats saved you some stella time doug :lol:

cheers

Jon

 

[JonnyD]

Been doing a bit more.

Glue is a 2 part mix consisting of the resin

And the hardener which looks like Cascamite

The glue is mixed by weight and you have 5 parts resin to 1 part hardener. I have found that you need about 175 to 200g of mixed glue per square metre. I used to muck around with some cheapo plastic kitchen scales but bought some digi scales for this job and there brilliant and you can be accurate to 1 gram

The resin

The Hardener

Mixed together

Just about fills the pizzi roller

The roller makes spreading the glue dead easy

Theres 4 panels going to be pressed at a time the first 2 are walnut which are then flipped and placed face down on the caul

The backing Sapele veneer is next

Another 2 panels are stacked on top with a plastic film in between to stop the panels sticking together if any glue gets through

The final walnut face veneers are applied the panels lined up so that they are dead in line and a caul is placed on the top of the stack

The whole lot is then slid into the bag and the vacuum pump turned on

After about 1 hour the glue has gone off and the panels removed with the veneers perfectly pressed

Just sanded one of the panels to see what they looked like

sorry about the ammount of pictures

cheers

Jon

 

[Doug B]

Good progress Jon.

Don`t worry about the amount of photos, the more the better, it`s really interesting to see how you go about veneering on this scale.

That hopper fed adhesive spreader must save hours.

What is the shelf life (un-mixed) of the 2 part adhesive & what`s the smallest quantity you can buy?


Cheers.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Don`t worry about the amount of photos, the more the better, it`s really interesting to see how you go about veneering on this scale.

+1. That Black Walnut veneer looks lovely.

Keep the excellent photos coming

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Good stuff, but the caul on top of the job in an vacuum press ain't needed :? ...I've done stuff as big in my AirPress, just lob it in the bag, seal it up and switch on the pump. What I do which is slightly different is to cover all the sharp edges of the job with a few layers of thick paper (usually from old mags etc) so that there's less pressure on the corners (and thus less chance of a puncture). It's probably a bit of overkill and not needed, but it's a habit I've got into now - Rob

 

[Chems]

Great WIP, one of the best on here in ages. Keep it coming!

 

[Doug B]

Sorry, couple of more questions Jon.

Does the plastic bag have to be a certain thickness?

Second, I can see the caul has rounded corners which I presume is to stop it tearing the bag, but is this just an off cut of sheet material? I imagine using it speeds up getting the job into the bag which is important as the adhesive seems to be fast setting?

After getting rained off today on site I`ve been in the workshop ever since sorting out the vacuum pump from my lathe chuck as I fancy giving this type of veneering a spin

Cheers.

 

[JonnyD]

Sorry, couple of more questions Jon.

Does the plastic bag have to be a certain thickness?

Second, I can see the caul has rounded corners which I presume is to stop it tearing the bag, but is this just an off cut of sheet material? I imagine using it speeds up getting the job into the bag which is important as the adhesive seems to be fast setting?

After getting rained off today on site I`ve been in the workshop ever since sorting out the vacuum pump from my lathe chuck as I fancy giving this type of veneering a spin

Cheers.

The airpress bags are quite thick polyurethane i think, but you can use quite thin plastic films which you can get from fibreglass suppliers which makes the bags almost disposable.

The caul is just an offcut of mfc with the rounded corners to stop the bag from puncturing. The caul serves a few purposes mainly it gives even pressure on the top veneers if you dont use it there is a chance of localised low pressure spots. due to the bag rippling up slightly. It also protects the top veneers from being damaged as it slides in the bag. If you dont use it you can quite easily catch the veneers and wreck the job. Also if your veneering ontop of a lipped edge the veneers are stretched a little if you dont use a caul and sometimes this can lead to slight spiltting of the veneer. If im doing curved stuff i may use just the bag but i mostly use an offcut of lino as the caul on curved jobs.

The glue can be bought in relatively small quantities from here as little as 3kgs a time http://www.adkwik.co.uk/index.php?dispa ... t_id=29861 i think it says its best to use it within 1 year on the data sheets

cheers

Jon

 

[JonnyD]

Progress today has mainly been more veneering. Popped out of the workshop to put the plinths on a little job we did a couple of weeks ago its a sprayed mdf and corian worktop for a foot surgery

Back in the workshop just had time to start sorting out some beech for the frames we are using 1 1/2 inch stock as the frames will be 33mm finished with 30mm doors

The new wadkin crosscut has been bodged up so that it works and its saved a lot of time crosscutting the rough planks. It will be pimped properley when this project is finished

more next week

cheers

Jon

 

[jhwbigley]

Jon

Looking smart Jon, some really nice walnut veneer there. I'm warming to the shooting method for joining veneers after witnessing Robert Ingham's veneering master class at the last Northern Contemporary thing.

Have you every tried using a whisk for mixing glue? It really does work, and quicker too.

JH

 

[woodbloke]

. I'm warming to the shooting method for joining veneers after witnessing Robert Ingham's veneering master class at the last Northern Contemporary thing.

JH

I've tried all sorts for cutting veneers and I reckon a veneer shoot is the best way to get a decent edged that's fit for joining. That said, RI's veneer shoot looks like it's been built out of odds n'sods salvaged from the Tirpitz (hammer) (if it's the one I'm thinking of) - Rob

 

[wallace]

Hi its nice to see how the big boys work in their workshops.

Mark

 

[tsb]

I love watching all the WIP posts but forgive me for asking. Why are you doing all that veneering, for the sake of the carcases. Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to buy walnut faced mdf. Would the customer actually notice any difference?

 

[No skills]

Interesting to see how large scale veneer is done, love the walnut.

 

[doctor Bob]

I love watching all the WIP posts but forgive me for asking. Why are you doing all that veneering, for the sake of the carcases. Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to buy walnut faced mdf. Would the customer actually notice any difference?

I know it's walnut veneer birch ply, but as above why not buy in birch ply sheets, veneered in walnut, I got some for £72 a sheet a year or so ago, somewhere in the midlands, 10 sheets, job done.

 

[worsley947]

Looking good johnny as always I will watch this wip and comments with interest
Dave

 

[JonnyD]

I love watching all the WIP posts but forgive me for asking. Why are you doing all that veneering, for the sake of the carcases. Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to buy walnut faced mdf. Would the customer actually notice any difference?

I know it's walnut veneer birch ply, but as above why not buy in birch ply sheets, veneered in walnut, I got some for £72 a sheet a year or so ago, somewhere in the midlands, 10 sheets, job done.

Hi tsb it would certainly be cheaper to buy walnut faced mdf but the client was adamant that it was the birchply as the base material and was keen to have wide leaves of veneer.

Hi Bob can you remember the name of the company. The quotes i had were more than double what you payed. I actually dont mind veneering it as we are getting paid well to do it which is the main thing.

thanks for the comments

Jon