Wadkin Bursgreen TS 1 phse conversion

[punkrockdad]

I've been offered a Wadkin Bursgreen TS for a good price.

The chap has had it from new from around 1975.

I went to have a look and its 3 phase with what I think is a 4.5kw motor on it.

I dont have 3 phase. Is it worth converting? A phase convertor or a new single phase motor from axminster?

Its a bit beaten up and hiding under a couple of ton of sawdust.

 

[DaveL]

Well that must be quite a big beast, 4.5kw is ~ 6HP, do you have room for the size of the machine?

I need a 16A single phase feed for the 3HP motor I fitted to the 10"AGS Wadkin that I have, so if you keep that power of motor I think you will need a 32A feed for it. :shock:

On the other hand a Wadkin at a good price is worth having, used daily it should still out last most of us here. 8)

 

[punkrockdad]

32A! Its not going to happen.

Can I lower the req amps with an inverter?

It does feel very solid and I have an overwhelming urge to strip it down and clean it all up.

 

[9fingers]

A 4.5Kw motor even with softstart is never going to run on a 13amp plug atf full power
Think 4 amps per kw even with no surges.

I doubt you will get a 6hp single phase motor to put on it.

1) are you sure it is 4.5kW?
2) What blade size will it take max? Maybe you don't need that many horses?
2) Is the rating plate marked 240/440 volts and does the connector on the motor casing have 6 terminals. If yes then you have a fighting chance of using an inverter to generate 3 phase 240 volts from a 13amp plug.
this will give you a soft start and can possibly be programmed to deliver 4hp max. Not ideal but would get it running and doing some work for you.

I don't think a static converter will work as this does not give soft start.

Still worth the effort to get a good saw going imho


Bob

 

[big soft moose]

for that matter wahat about getting a three phase line / circuit put in - how much that costs depends on where you are but it does open up the possibility of all sorts of bargains on union, wadkin etc.

 

[Scrit]

for that matter wahat about getting a three phase line / circuit put in - how much that costs depends on where you are

It certainly does! PowerGen have been known to price this one into five figures and won't normally supply three phase to anyone other than an industrial user (i.e. a company, they like the idea of being able to recoup their costs). So it's probably better to either change the motor (but to a smaller one than 6HP - single phase motors become extremely scarce and expensive above 3HP, not to mention considerably larger than equivalent three-phase motors) or use a three-phase converter, such as a Transwave. That's how I ran my first two commercial shops, although I was limited to 3HP at a time simply because the wiring wouldn't take much more.

4.5kW (6HP, or possibly up to or over 36 Amperes starting load) sounds enormous, more like a rip saw than a panel saw. Wadkin dimension saws like the PK and later PP generally had 4HP to drive an 18in blade (some PPs were indeed 6HP) whilst the older panel saws like the BGP and BGS were only 3HP. Later SP12, SP130s and the like were similarly only about 4HP with a much smaller number of PanelMaster (CP) saws being supplied with motors as big as 10HP, although these were/are all post 1970s machines so hardly ancient.

To the OP. If this really is a panel saw it will be able to do a full rip of an 8ft sheet of MDF/ply. That means you'll need a work space around 20ft long and 12 to 16ft wide with no other machinery in there just to use the thing. The question then becomes "is my garage big enough to hold 3 or 4 cars". If as I suspect it's a dimension saw (like a PP or PK) it's a lot smaller, but still a big bit of kit. Either way dimension saw, half-panel or panel saw have you worked out how you're going to move it yet? (as these machines can weigh a tonne or more and are really awkward shapes)

Scrit

 

[punkrockdad]

Scrit,

A little more information. Its a BRT 10 which looks like a panel saw from the research I have done upto now. I maybe wrong on the kw and will check again. Like I said the things a bit beaten up and full of saw dust.

Moving it? I could lift one side up with a bit of a grunt. And with a little inspection it looked like I could break it down into three parts. Table, middle section and base. The motor could also be dismounted which must weigh at least four bags of cement easily.

I understand your 20ft space to use one of these to its fullest extent but I have a festool guide system for panel work and would be using the wadkin as a more general purpose TS. I'd like to specify the motor on that basis.

Anybody mounted one of these on a mobile base?

 

[Scrit]

Its a BRT 10 which looks like a panel saw from the research I have done upto now.p

It now gets easier. A BRT10 is a 10in table saw with a built-on sliding carraige. A panel saw is a very different beast designed to handle full sheat of 8 x 4ft plywood and by definition should be able to cross cut one. The BRT has a crosscut capacity of 40-3/8 x 1in (1025 x 25) or 39-3/8 x 3-1/8in (1000 x 80). Fundamentally it's an AGS with a right side sliding table and should look like this:

which happens to be the circa 1979 model BRT10 owned by member misterfish (and referred to here). The motor size is generally 2HP (1.5kW) on the 10in version and because the machine is fundamentally an AGS10 conversion to single phase has been dealt with by several members already, so doing a search for Wadkin and AGHS might help.

Moving it? I could lift one side up with a bit of a grunt. And with a little inspection it looked like I could break it down into three parts. Table, middle section and base.

The whole lot weighs around 225kg, so it'sm potentially manageable. By all means remove the sliding carraige, rip fence, rip fence bar, etc. but try to resist the temptation to remove the motor or cast iron top as getting things back together and in alignment might not be that easy!

I..... would be using the wadkin as a more general purpose TS. I'd like to specify the motor on that basis.

As a GP saw the BRT is a potentially a good little machine, especially if you're lucky to pick up one with the later type fence (i.e. the type with a sliding ally high-low plate)

Regards

Scrit

 

[Digit]

With that sort of power I would expect at least a 16 inch blade.

Roy.

 

[misterfish]

Moving it? I could lift one side up with a bit of a grunt. And with a little inspection it looked like I could break it down into three parts. Table, middle section and base.

The whole lot weighs around 225kg, so it'sm potentially manageable. By all means remove the sliding carraige, rip fence, rip fence bar, etc. but try to resist the temptation to remove the motor or cast iron top as getting things back together and in alignment might not be that easy!

With a bit of effort I moved my machine within the workshop by dragging it, but had the use of a small forklift to get it to the workshop. When collecting it we 'walked' it on to a pallet and used a manual pallet lifter trolley thingy to get it to the forklift. I reckon you'd need four strong individuals to lift and move it safely.

As Scrit says it is a single phase machine but it needs to run from a dedicated 16A circuit with a type C circuit breaker.

Misterfish

 

[punkrockdad]

Is the realignment impossible or just a bit tricky?

The reason I say that is that the rise and fall is a bit sticky / clunky. I had a quick look inside and its stuffed full of aincent sawdust. No extractors or dust pans back in 1975 apparently. I feel the urge to strip it down and rebuild. Which would help when moving it.

Its def 3 phase as the whole shop is 3 phase. He also had a 3 wheel combination / universal machine the likes of which I have never seen before! And a dominion mortising machine which would weigh in at about four elephants.

 

[Digit]

Ah! They don't make 'em like they used to! :lol:

Roy.

 

[misterfish]

Is the realignment impossible or just a bit tricky?

The reason I say that is that the rise and fall is a bit sticky / clunky. I had a quick look inside and its stuffed full of aincent sawdust. No extractors or dust pans back in 1975 apparently. I feel the urge to strip it down and rebuild. Which would help when moving it.

Its def 3 phase as the whole shop is 3 phase. He also had a 3 wheel combination / universal machine the likes of which I have never seen before! And a dominion mortising machine which would weigh in at about four elephants.

Getting alignment right shouldn't be a problem - just a bit fiddly to get it spot on.

The rise and fall on my machine was also sticky/clunky when I got it. I used my compressor to blow out all of the muck (in conjuction with a stiff brush) and then sprayed all the moving bits with GT85 PTFE spray which lubricates nicely but is not sticky.

Misterfish