Virus protection on Applemac?

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TonyW":7apia6lh said:
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A new type of computer threat specifically for computers running Mac OS X has the blogosphere in uproar as Macintosh owners realize their machines could be just as vulnerable to the cyberattacks that most often target Windows users.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517610,00.html
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Ah but that example proves my point. This botnet trojan whatever was contained in an illegal copy of some apple software. So the only way to get infected is to steal some software and then install it on your computer. You get infected by a deliberate action on the part of the user.
 
Rob_H":1rxk4bxh said:
I have an iMac and a macbook. I ran AV software the other day - for the first time in two years, and it found three trojan viruses. Nothing is 100% safe.

I'd be interested to know what they found and how they got there or were they only windows viruses contained inside emails?
 
dedee":6rc5zkvw said:
The card reader form the nationwide is not connected to the computer. Your cash card needs to be inserted and your pin number entered. A unique id transaction id from the web page is then entered in to the reader which produces another unique id to be entered on the web. These ids can be used once only so reading them remotely would not help. I think

Andy

Correct. Also many sites use a point and click form of data entry where the sequence on the screen is altered each time and so if you had a trojan and it copied your keystrokes they would be useless the next time. Anything transmitted between your computer and the bank is sent encrypted and hypothetically with a few Crays it might get decoded but if you are that paranpid about things then keep your money under your mattress.

Re cash machines - was it last year that the Camridge maths professor proved that the PIN algorithm was fundamentally flawed and not secure and easy to crack?

I'd worry much more about using a wireless handheld card reader terminal in a restaurant then picking something up on my Mac.
 
Roger, somehow I knew that you would be back to disagree :D

I respect your point of view and the fact that you have the Mac knowledge and experience that I lack. I also admire your faith in your chosen system.

RogerS":1tntf5au said:
The vast majority of the viruses in the PC leveraged off the fact that Microsoft programmers were too damn lazy to write proper software and protect against stack overflows. Not a rant against Microsoft, just a simple fact. OS X on the Mac is based on Unix which has been around for years and years and years ..also as open source..so all the obvious security holes have been long plugged.

Just to add a little more controversy :D
Many administrators have always assumed Linux and other UNIX-based platforms were virtually invulnerable to viruses and worms. I believe the first malware discovered around !987. This fallacy (IMO) was due to the security flaws within the MS operating system which is without doubt the most popular target for the writers of malware simply/conveniently they forgot any possible issues with their own system. Great that obvious security flaws have been plugged - now worried about the not so obvious ones at this time and in the future :D

I for one am convinced that this complacency still persists and the threats to these systems is still around as it was in the 80's. The fact that the Mac is gaining a larger user base is also making it more attractive target for the baddies :evil:

Cheers :D
Tony
 
I wouldnt contest that there are less threats to apple than there are to MS platforms, nor do i havce anything against apple per se (i used to use one a lot for photography but eventually was forced to swap to MS for compatability with the system at work)

however i still say there is a difference between "safer" and "safe" and mac users are burying their head in the sand if they think they will never be subject to a malware attack

for instance http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/ ... lware.html yes the trojan this refers to requires user interface to install but it is launching from a seemingly legit website - a decent AV system can warn you if a website is not what it appears

likewise this one http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-9808489-37.html disguises itself as a codec necessary to watch porn - and yes those downloading porn are asking for it but it could just as easily be disguised as any other file type (a music file for example) and how are you going to spot it without some sort of security
 
Your points are well made, Pete, but to be pedantic on the two examples that you've given.

big soft moose":2wvpstce said:
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for instance http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/ ... lware.html yes the trojan this refers to requires user interface to install but it is launching from a seemingly legit website - a decent AV system can warn you if a website is not what it appears
Firefox flags up the download site as dodgy ..and so yes, i guess that I have some dodgy site detection already running by virtue of Firefox. However, even if Firefox didn't warn me about it, I'd be checking the urls rigorously anyway.

big soft moose":2wvpstce said:
likewise this one http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-9808489-37.html disguises itself as a codec necessary to watch porn - and yes those downloading porn are asking for it but it could just as easily be disguised as any other file type (a music file for example) and how are you going to spot it without some sort of security

A codec is an executable piece of code. Bottom line...the user is still asked to click 'yes'. AFAIK all the putative and/or existing Mac trojans etc require user intervention. In any case, music files are not executable and so couldn't be infected in this way.
 
RogerS":pdj3mt9a said:
Rob_H":pdj3mt9a said:
I have an iMac and a macbook. I ran AV software the other day - for the first time in two years, and it found three trojan viruses. Nothing is 100% safe.

I'd be interested to know what they found and how they got there or were they only windows viruses contained inside emails?

As per my PM in answer to yours, you often never know how they get there - take it from me I know more than a little bit about this subject, never run illegal software, but still fell foul. The presence of Mac AV software for sale out there demonstrates there is a problem, just nowhere near the level of the PC issue.
 
Rob_H":dq4m7c2a said:
.... The presence of Mac AV software for sale out there demonstrates there is a problem, just nowhere near the level of the PC issue.

:shock: Equally it could mean a marketing opportunity ...!

Out of curiosity I loaded up ClamXav to see what it would find. It found four in my junk mail. All related to trying and getting you to go to a phishing site. Firefox warned me when i clicked out of curiosity on the links. Hardly earth-shattering and i'm certainly not going to lose any sleep because I've not greased the palms of the likes of Norton :wink:
 
Viruses are written maliciously by hackers to cause as much chaos as possible/or to gain some confidential material, and are aimed at PC`s purely because thats what the world uses to conduct its business.

As stated earlier there is little kudos to a hacker bringing "down" a half dozen Macs when for the same amount of his time he can cripple a whole network of PC`s

you may not have them yet on Macs , but they WILL eventually get there purely for the fact more and more people are migrating to Macs thinking they are invulnerable to viruses.

if it can be hacked it will be, not today, not tomorrow but it WILL come...
 
I too find it odd how so many Mac users run the antivirus software called "it'll never happen".

That the main viruses for MacOS are proof of concept is NOT a good thing. It just means that the number of Macs isn't high enough (as a percentage of market) for anyone to bother writing something nasty.

Yes the system (UNIX) is inherently more secure, and inherently harder to damage than the single-user MSDos (and it's successors) thanks to the multi user foundation it's built on but that's inherently MORE secure, not inherently SECURE.



Dedee
Any time anyone involved in data security, DRM, encryption and so on says something is impossible you should be hearing dirty great big alarm bells ringing.
If it's impossible to abuse a system now it is nothing more than a matter of time until it's cracked.

RFID passports and ID cards were secure. Impossible to fake. No longer.

The most secure fingerprint scanners in the world can be beaten with some simple tricks, a scanner, some super glue and a few other bits of very simple trickery. All you need to do is use a glass in a bar.

Absolutely every "impossible" hack has been done in the past, and the current ones will be beaten too. It's just that simple.


For the time being, the operating systems which come from a network background (BSD, UNIX, Linux, etc) are far safer than Windows due to everything from sloppy coding at Microsoft to the inherently safer nature of their structure... remembering of course that MacOS is NOT open source so doesn't benefit to the same extent from distributed coding that some others do - but as the market share increases that will become more and more likely to change. As Windows becomes more secure, MacOS get a wider user base which will eventually bring it into the firing line.

That said - I wouldn't run Norton on ANY computer. There's much better and less bloated security software out there.
 
BigShot":2dz2nlnk said:
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RFID passports and ID cards were secure. Impossible to fake. No longer.
......

That's only because the various country govt departments in their usual hamfisted way implemented a flawed system to start with. A great pity that they didn't learn from and use the system implemented for the UK Asylum Reistration Cards that use and store biometric information in a secure form that has not been hacked or broken into.

Having dug around a bit more I came across a couple of sites specialising in Mac OS X vulnerabilities and the biggest concern would appear to be Safari (both OS X and Windows) and not the operating system per se. From there I followed up a few more strands and that confirmed my gut feel that wi-fi hotspots were, well, potentially seriously 'hot' and there is no way that I would connect up any device to one of those.

Look up 'captive portal' for more info. Or cross-site scripting attacks and SQL injection attacks.

I asked the question of one of these security guys what they thought of antivirus software et al for use on a Mac and the answer was 'snake-oil'.
 
Roger,

For the likes of you (you come across as pretty clued up on the security front) and me (I'm just paranoid and take no chances) there is probably no reason as yet, but the fact that there are vulnerabilities combined with the somewhat "closed source" nature (I believe that in itself is a vulnerability compared with open source, distributed programming model) and the growing popularity of the system, I'd suggest it's a matter of time until the few vulnerabilities that exist begin to be exploited.

Snake oil, most likely, but I have a feeling the oil will become less and less snakey over time.

I'd suggest that the only reason the UK Asulym cards haven't been broken into (if indeed they haven't, I dunno but I'll happily take your word for it - I see no reason you'd be fibbing ;)) is lack of motivation.

With RFID there are several in-principle objections to the new uses of the technology and even more to representing it as secure. Given the number of people who object to RFID in their bank cards (possibly the main reason the system has been cracked so quickly) and in passports and other Identity documents - it's understandable that a large effort has gone into cracking it, both to demonstrate the flawed nature of the system (and so turn public opinion against undesirable government projects with well timed press releases) and on the banking front, to steal peoples card details without giving so much as a sneaking suspicion it has happened. It's like the ultimate mugging and incredibly attractive to unsavoury types... unless everyone takes to carrying around their cards in a faraday protected wallet or purse.

No system is secure.

Finally - as for WiFi hotspots... yea, they really are aptly titled. I tend not to even put card details and the likes over my HOME wireless network, and I've got that shored up pretty tightly, preferring instead to do things like that over my desktop connected to the router with an ethernet cable.
 

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