I just love the concept of this saw. The saw guard system is IMO far superior to anything I’ve seen before, eg the Felder / Saw Stop system. I can’t wait to see it it real life. If I were in the market for a new slider, Altendorf would be top of my list with this one feature.
Very very Nice Bling Safe Sliding Saw by Altendorf.
- Thread starter deema
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
This saw would be even safer if it had a crown guard attached to riving knife and he was using push sticks instead of hands. In fact their safety system would be quite redundant and a complete waste of money.
It also encourages unsafe practices and could itself fail.
They are just trying to sell a lot of unnecessary gear - not much profit to be made out of push sticks even though they are much safer!
Or is it just a joke? I didn't watch to the end!
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Yanks don't seem to use crown guards anyway, as rule. But yes I suppose things are different with bigger blades - I couldn't find HSE comments do you have a link?
Yes definitely if your hand is going nearer than say 10" to the blade, but obviously not if you are on the far end of an 8x4'
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Doug B
Shy Tot
Wonder how much the safety feature puts on the £24,000 price tag of a standard F45
I would not have thought you would need this sawstop feature on a commercial saw, the people using them are trained wheras the sawstop feature is aimed at numpties who should not be using any machines or using sharp tools because they are just accidents waiting to happen. No safety feature can replace safe working practices and mindset but can create an illusion of safety and make people be less concerned of being safe.
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Accidents happen, thats why they are called accidents
They happen to amateurs and professional alike and there is no way anyone can say just because they have been trained, that insulates them from one.
Mindset is fine when you just sit in your shed for an hour or two, but thats completely different to a machine operator who is on the saw for 8 hours, or using a range of big machines over the course of the day and every day.
I am fully trained, i have the qualifications, but would that mean i can act with complacency ? You'd have to be a complete fool to think thats the case.
But you'd have to be an even bigger fool to think your mind is so zen that it cant ever happen.
Then lets look at 'commercially' In that its all being done to a tight budget. I mean that people are under pressure to get the job done in continuous production runs. That in itself is a recipe for disaster.
I've met a number of old joiners missing fingers, and tales of losing bits on everything from the moulder tot he surfacer to the saw.
These machines are dangerous.
I'd love to know your background Spectric ? Are you a trained pro. Been to college, got a degree up on your wall ?. How many years did you work in industry.
But what is more concerning is you have taken the title of Mod here. Soo you should be promoting safety, and not demeaning anyone who has an accident as some sort of numpty. How bloody insulting.
I'm not so harsh about it but do agree with @TRITON that accidents can happen to anyone anytime.
Shop foreman (tick), 50+ years experience (tick), behavioural safety trained (tick), you can still lose a hand ...
Automated safety systems shouldn't be a substitute for training and experience but if I could afford them I'd want them as well.
Shop foreman (tick), 50+ years experience (tick), behavioural safety trained (tick), you can still lose a hand ...
Automated safety systems shouldn't be a substitute for training and experience but if I could afford them I'd want them as well.
John 8 2-11, adapting it,
If any one of you is without accident, let him be the first to throw away any safety system.
It’s interesting the perspective that training alleviates the necessity for safety systems. A good safety system enhances productivity whilst reducing or preferably eliminating the need to explain to someone’s partner why they are going to have bring up their kids on their own. It’s completely consoling for them to highlight that you had trained them well, so the incident should not have occurred, and in reality as they had signed to say they were qualified their death was completely their own fault. Me, when I ran company’s this never fully sat squarely with me, irrespective of the legal framework of the various countries and what you could get away with. So, a person from second world life to me was just as valuable and worth living as anyone in the first, arguably more so as their entire family usually depended on their income / having all their bits still attached to them at the end of the day.
There is a wired dichotomy through, if you have a saw with this sort of safety device (Europe) and for what ever reason it stops working and you continue to allow people to use the machine you are now negligent and accountable personally if an accident occurs. If the saw you bought instead didn’t have the feature and the same accident occurred you’re not (with a few caveats). It’s a crazy world that we live in! I’m glad I’m now retired and don’t have to deal with this stuff any more
If any one of you is without accident, let him be the first to throw away any safety system.
It’s interesting the perspective that training alleviates the necessity for safety systems. A good safety system enhances productivity whilst reducing or preferably eliminating the need to explain to someone’s partner why they are going to have bring up their kids on their own. It’s completely consoling for them to highlight that you had trained them well, so the incident should not have occurred, and in reality as they had signed to say they were qualified their death was completely their own fault. Me, when I ran company’s this never fully sat squarely with me, irrespective of the legal framework of the various countries and what you could get away with. So, a person from second world life to me was just as valuable and worth living as anyone in the first, arguably more so as their entire family usually depended on their income / having all their bits still attached to them at the end of the day.
There is a wired dichotomy through, if you have a saw with this sort of safety device (Europe) and for what ever reason it stops working and you continue to allow people to use the machine you are now negligent and accountable personally if an accident occurs. If the saw you bought instead didn’t have the feature and the same accident occurred you’re not (with a few caveats). It’s a crazy world that we live in! I’m glad I’m now retired and don’t have to deal with this stuff any more
Doug B
Shy Tot
Every one who legally drives a car in this country has had training & passed a test doesn’t seem to follow they don’t have accidents 
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Or find a better one? May I suggest, er, 2 push sticks?
.....as it could well do for technical reasons, maybe just on the day you choose to demonstrate it and splash blood over everybody!
Also they can be switched off so that's another hazard.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
These saw systems are a bit like driverless cars - technically brilliant until they go wrong.Every one who legally drives a car in this country has had training & passed a test doesn’t seem to follow they don’t have accidents
Jameshow
Established Member
I also wear a seatbelt and steer with airbag equipped steering wheel!Every one who legally drives a car in this country has had training & passed a test doesn’t seem to follow they don’t have accidents
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Me too, but it doesn't mean we can behave like total tw ats!
e.g. like a yank in a sales pitch for a very expensive daft gadget
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Does it have an incident tracker like what car insurance companies have,
as the Sawstop does, albeit different i.e who set off the cartridge?
You need training kinda thing.
Wouldn't be too much to ask if it didn't.
as the Sawstop does, albeit different i.e who set off the cartridge?
You need training kinda thing.
Wouldn't be too much to ask if it didn't.
But depends what the hazard is, walking down the road and getting injured by frozen crraap from a plane at 30,000 ft would be an accident but using a machine and getting injured is really a preventable incident if you were in charge. If in a workplace and the machine was lacking guards or did not have an upto date Puwer cert then you should not even use it so no injury should occur. The table saw is a really dangerous machine but cannot cause injury unless you stick your digits into the blade, so with a sliding table saw you should be well clear of the blade anyway and if there is any chance of you getting close to that blade use pushsticks. Once you analyse accident synarios you soon find the reason, often something really basic like cluttered working area or a job being rushed because the guys nearing the end of his day.
Sell someone a car and emphasise it's safety features like airbags and side impact bars so they get in it and feel invincable they often will drive without thought for others because they feel safe and without any risk if involved in an accident. Maybe with EV's we can tell them there is a real risk of cremation if involved in an accident and they will drive more safely !
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Doug B
Shy Tot
my personal experience is they do that regardless of safety features
Corset
Established Member
I think the always safe argument is a bit flawed. accidents happen often when people are tired at work, ie they have been out the night before or had a bad nights sleep or are rushing to finish to get home. A saw like that is likely to be in a larger operation with employees. As someone who employs younger staff sometimes using potentially dangerous tools for the first time. Reducing the risk is a no brainer. My worst fear is having someones kid maimed or hurt becuase they didnt pay attention. I would pay for that all day long.. all day. Push stick are all very well till some bright spark is chatting to their friend etc..
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
At least you know whether or not you have push sticks in your hand but you can never be certain that these automatic safety devices are functional, switched in etc. or even that the machine you are using has one fitted.
You'd have to have them on all your machines of course, and to any new additions, otherwise it would be back to push sticks!
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