Very very Nice Bling Safe Sliding Saw by Altendorf.

[Jacob]

I mean why have anything other than this Log into Facebook perfectly safe if you adhere to safe working practices.

Is that what you've got?

No wonder you are worried about safety! Time you looked at buying a better machine but it doesn't have to be an Altendorf!
3 point linkage is good though, if you happen to have a small tractor handy and like sawing firewood in the open air.

 

[TRITON]

I love that totally inadequate blade guard

 

[Jacob]

I love that totally inadequate blade guard

Sexy though - more like a thong than the full bikini!

 

[Ttrees]

The guard is probably getting close to being an automatic job by now if not already, since it has a supply for the warning strip light.
Haven't found one video I seen before, which demonstrated raising one of these,
it didn't appear nice, as it was very clunky like using a very oversized timer detent system.

The presumable older Altendorf design seemingly is different, as the Manor wood guy didn't mention it on his previous one.
Still looks a bit of a fight to me (video is timestamped at this part)

The SUVA looks much nicer, since the leverage is coming from above the guard,
and looks more ergonomic with the lever also.

Seems if they all start upgrading these type machines, the possibly unmatched manual design
of the SUVA guard stands a good chance of disappearing,
or at least not being copied.

Perhaps I'm wrong, should a floating guard be a requirement for every machine,
old and new, in the workplace?

 

[Agent_zed]

Have to get these things in proportion.

30,000 Americans injuring themselves per year seems like quite a big proportion to me and seeing as the current 'use some push sticks' advice doesn't seem to be working, seems quite sensible to me, as a user, if there was a system to reduce this amount. If I was a business I'd probably also want to protect myself against employees doing something dumb.

If you are of the opinion that nothing bad can possibly ever happen using push sticks then good luck to you. I'm glad you have ninja like reactions to any and all situations happening around you or to you including any and all sudden medical afflictions.

I'll just continue assuming a circular saw capable of cutting through hard wood like it's nothing is a very real risk to my digits, push sticks or not.

 

[jcassidy]

I just love the concept of this saw. The saw guard system is IMO far superior to anything I’ve seen before, eg the Felder / Saw Stop system. I can’t wait to see it it real life. If I were in the market for a new slider, Altendorf would be top of my list with this one feature.

I've read most of the replies and you all seem to be missing the point.

If you make it impossible to get cut by the saw, you can put an untrained person on it and not incur (much) production line delays due to accidents.

You then undercut your rivals by a huge margin because they need trained and certified staff, and you don't.

 

[Jacob]

I've read most of the replies and you all seem to be missing the point.

If you make it impossible to get cut by the saw, you can put an untrained person on it and not incur (much) production line delays due to accidents.

You then undercut your rivals by a huge margin because they need trained and certified staff, and you don't.

But would you employ a person who was such a moron that you had to invest in expensive hi tech safety gear because they couldn't understand about keeping their fingers well away from the blades?
Though it might take a bit of training to get an absolute beginner up to speed I suppose.

 

[jcassidy]

But would you employ a person who was such a moron that you had to invest in expensive hi tech safety gear because they couldn't understand about keeping their fingers well away from the blades?

If I was an American entrepeneur, that's exactly who I would want to employ.

And when they lost a finger/fingers, I'd fire them on the spot for breaking the safety rules, so my insurance policy wouldn't be hit by a claim. Let them apply for workers comp. I'd have another guy on the saw by tomorrow.

Let them sue me. They probably can't afford a laywer (especially after the medical bills, nor the they're not on my insurance anymore) anyway.

*edit* On the other bend, a skilled and experienced operator is likely to be a) unionised, b) more familiar with his rights and c) harder to replace

 

[Jacob]

If I was an American entrepeneur, that's exactly who I would want to employ.

And when they lost a finger/fingers, I'd fire them on the spot for breaking the safety rules, so my insurance policy wouldn't be hit by a claim. Let them apply for workers comp. I'd have another guy on the saw by tomorrow.

Let them sue me. They probably can't afford a laywer (especially after the medical bills, nor the they're not on my insurance anymore) anyway.

But if you were that entrepreneur would you invest ..etc...etc to protect a moron on the job?

 

[Spectric]

Not if you don't put them near it when it's on.

That is how I look at a table saw or mitre saw, you know where that blade is spinning and the danger zone so why put your anatomy any where close.

If you are of the opinion that nothing bad can possibly ever happen using push sticks then good luck to you

Nothing bad should happen, but unfortunately some people will use the push sticks in such a way that an accident happens, the most obvious is pushing too hard and it slips with your hand taking sudden forward acceleration towards the blade.

It all comes down to YOU, if tired or feeling rough then leave the job till another day, be arsed to have a tidy up if the work area is messy and approach the saw as if it is wanting to chop bits off you and just imagine the mess if it does and the wait in A&E plus having to learn to wipe your arse with the other hand.

 

[Spectric]

But if you were that employer would you invest ..etc...etc to protect a moron on the job?

I think the choices are becoming more limited, far more numpties around as so many no longer live in the real world !

 

[jcassidy]

But if you were that employer would you invest ..etc...etc to protect a moron on the job?

The $24k price tag is to prevent stoppages of the production line.

If someone like Triton worked for me, and had an accident, I'd be down a skilled and hard to replace cog in my machine, I'd be covering his medical expenses etc.
If someone like me had an accident, well there's no problem finding another schmuck to push wood into the machine...

 

[Jacob]

The $24k price tag is to prevent stoppages of the production line.

If someone like Triton worked for me, and had an accident, I'd be down a skilled and hard to replace cog in my machine, I'd be covering his medical expenses etc.
If someone like me had an accident, well there's no problem finding another schmuck to push wood into the machine...

Getting a bit bonkers this thread. What $24k on every machine in the shop?
Wouldn't it be cheaper to train them up with push sticks ($3 each)

 

[Jacob]

That is how I look at a table saw or mitre saw, you know where that blade is spinning and the danger zone so why put your anatomy any where close.

Exactly. It's not rocket science

Nothing bad should happen, but unfortunately some people will use the push sticks in such a way that an accident happens, the most obvious is pushing too hard and it slips with your hand taking sudden forward acceleration towards the blade.

It does happen and the ends of push sticks get cut. But you would be the length of push stick away, which is the whole point, as compared to using your hand alone close to the blade and getting your hand cut instead.
Does this really need explaining?
How would you cope with poking a fire - would you see the poker as increasing the risk? Sudden acceleration into the heart of the fire? Maybe pokers should be banned?

 

[deema]

I always ignore the price, every new bit of technology initially starts with a premium, it’s the fact that the innovation has occurred. There is probably a patent, and for every patent there is always a work around, so at some point, the technology will become sufficiently cheap that it can appear in any saw. Eg, I’m old enough to remember the cost of the early Satellite phones or a the first so called mobile phones!

I’m all good with those who like playing Russian Roulette with the pokey sticks, but me personally, I prefer not to bet. Clearly for the majority of us the only variable solution to safety will be push sticks, crown guards and riving knives……but that will change.

If I was looking at a commercial setup for roughly the same money I’d probably buy a low end beam saw, it has far more efficiency and no danger of cutting the operators fingers off than any panel saw.

 

[Jacob]

I always ignore the price, every new bit of technology initially starts with a premium, it’s the fact that the innovation has occurred. There is probably a patent, and for every patent there is always a work around, so at some point, the technology will become sufficiently cheap that it can appear in any saw. Eg, I’m old enough to remember the cost of the early Satellite phones or a the first so called mobile phones!

I’m all good with those who like playing Russian Roulette with the pokey sticks, but me personally, I prefer not to bet. ....

Right you going to buy one now? Let us know how you get on.
Who else is going for it?

 

[Ed Weber]

You do realize that Altendorf has been refining this type of safety feature for several years.

 

[Jacob]

You do realize that Altendorf has been refining this type of safety feature for several years.

Have you bought it too?

 

[Agent_zed]

It does happen and the ends of push sticks get cut. But you would be the length of push stick away, which is the whole point, as compared to using your hand alone close to the blade and getting your hand cut instead.
Does this really need explaining?

I think we'll have to agree to disagree as you are literally arguing against safety features that could prevent someone losing a hand on the basis that they should have been trained better. I'm sure they will appreciate your 'Get well soon - I'd be happy to lend a hand on safety training, as you seem to be missing one' card.

I would guess that some industrial woodshops might not always be the most serene friendly 'take as much time as you need', 'your pushsticks are missing? have a break whilst I go and find some replacements for you' type of place at times.

My old CDT teacher had to have a digit re-attached as he was wearing bi-focals and misjudged the distance as he moved his hand across. No idea if he was holding a pushstick or not. Poor technique? perhaps, but I bet he would have prefered a sawstop or this system.

 

[Jacob]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree as you are literally arguing against safety features ....

No I'm arguing for simple safety measures which are easy to implement and highly effective.
You are arguing for very expensive safety measures of doubtful value, which most could not afford and are only necessary if you have untrained morons as operatives.
The simple fact is nobody reading this has thought them worth buying so far, including yourself! Why not?

My old CDT teacher had to have a digit re-attached as he was wearing bi-focals and misjudged the distance as he moved his hand across. No idea if he was holding a pushstick or not. Poor technique? perhaps, but I bet he would have prefered a sawstop or this system.

Obviously not holding a push stick or he would have just got a nasty cut to the push stick. Not painful however!