pgrbff
Established Member
If you only had one normal size block plane is there any reason you wouldn't choose the Veritas skew block plane?
Veritas skew block plane
- Thread starter pgrbff
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. Thats Probably just me and my setup.it's hard to figure out where to actually use it. I had the LN version at one point. It seems like a great idea - skew allows it to cut across grain, there's a fence (and more on the veritas version). But the plane is too small to comfortably take a significant cut of anything, it doesn't have a cap iron so tearout is a problem unless you hone it steeply, which exacerbates the small size (it gets harder to push) and I think a lot of people struggle with the skew part - it's easy if you sharpen freehand and base the honing on how the iron sits in the plane, but you will be honing often.
In all of the attempts that I made to use the plane that I had, I couldn't ever actually find a way to use it for more than a few strokes.
Deema is correct about sharpening effort - V11 wears about half as fast as O1 steel and to hone a certain amount of blade length, it will take about twice as many strokes. It does sharpen nicely because it's tempered pretty hard, but sooner or later you can't get past the fact that it takes a lot of honing.
In all of the attempts that I made to use the plane that I had, I couldn't ever actually find a way to use it for more than a few strokes.
Deema is correct about sharpening effort - V11 wears about half as fast as O1 steel and to hone a certain amount of blade length, it will take about twice as many strokes. It does sharpen nicely because it's tempered pretty hard, but sooner or later you can't get past the fact that it takes a lot of honing.
pgrbff
Established Member
I often make fielded panels and thought it might come in useful with the fence.
I'm also considering it for a small shooting board and thought the skew might help.
I'm also considering it for a small shooting board and thought the skew might help.
- bench planes (jack and smoother, or even a draw knife for the initial bulk)
- wooden moving fillister
- finely set skew rabbet plane
That is what you'll end up needing to field panels.
At some point, I robbed a badger plane of its iron and made a double iron panel raiser, but have never really used it as the other planes work better.
it's nice to imagine that a plane will help with fielding panels either all in one or as a finisher, but it's just not to be.
- wooden moving fillister
- finely set skew rabbet plane
That is what you'll end up needing to field panels.
At some point, I robbed a badger plane of its iron and made a double iron panel raiser, but have never really used it as the other planes work better.
it's nice to imagine that a plane will help with fielding panels either all in one or as a finisher, but it's just not to be.
No reasoon whatsoever. I have one and it is really excellent and vastly superior in design terms to the LN which I had before the Veritas. I have other block planes, all of which I use at various times but you can't go far wrong with the Veritas skew and there are some thinks it can do that non-skew versions cannot.
I use Japanese water stones and find the PMV11 blades just as easy to sharpen as the A2 and they keep their edge a lot longer.
Jim
I use Japanese water stones and find the PMV11 blades just as easy to sharpen as the A2 and they keep their edge a lot longer.
Jim
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it sharpens to a fine edge more easily than most A2 - it's harder.
My comments above are from a controlled test, and then also confirmation from kees heiden, who made a "honing machine" to measure how much steel was removed with each count of strokes. Grinds slowly and hones slowly but hones easily is sort of a difficult thing to convey.
As long as the damage is kept ahead of, it doesn't really matter that much, though - just an observation for most people who don't like things slow to sharpen or get nicks out of. It's a rough go if chosen for an all-hand method and no power grinder. CBN doesn't think too much of it, though, but it does heat very easily compared to carbon steel, and some of the temper can be drawn easily before it changes color. It's more tolerant to slight overheat than many steels, though.
In my opinion, it obsoletes A2 by a wide margin and will have a more uniform edge.
it's actually quite a difficult problem to find a steel that is any more wear resistant but still tolerable to sharpen. vanadium carbides bring a bit more wear, but they are far slower to hand hone, even on diamonds. they except more for cutting metal or creating a high wear high speed steel. I'm aware of only one maker using an alloy with significant vanadium carbides in woodworking tools. If LV would have used it, people would send it back.
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Tony Zaffuto
Established Member
I have the LN version and it’s a lovely plane, but hardly used. For cherry, it is superbly suited in aiding the user to get deeper shades of red on your work.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
The skew block plane is a specialist tool. It can do a few things better than other planes, but a standard block plane is more generally useful and easier to set up.
In brief, what the skew blade does is cut with a slicing angle. Now you can do this with any plane - any standard block plane, in particular, but the plane itself then needs to be skewed. A skew block plane (Stanley #140, LN #140, or Veritas) can complete a skew cut without skewing the plane. And it can do this where a plane cannot be skewed.
A skew cut is preferred when planing across the grain, such as with a raised panel and tenon cheeks. I have preferred it over a rabbet block plane (with has a straight blade) when tuning the inside side walls of a drawer case. Both these planes can plane to the outside of the planes body.
In regards to setting up a skew block plane, I hollow grind the bevel at 25 degrees (these planes all have a 20 degree skew), and then free hand sharpen directly on the hollow. Whether it is A2 or PM-V11, block planes hold a good edge at 25 degrees. There is no need for high bevel angles when used across the grain. The place for a higher cutting angle is when using a standard block plane for chamfers and trimming edge grain.
Regards from Perth
Derek
pgrbff
Established Member
This is why I thought it might be good for both a small shooting board and for finishing bench saw cut raised panels for doors.
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
My reason for not using one for everyday work is that I tend to grab and go and would overlook the open side. The resulting cuts would give all my work blood stained markings. Great tool when the specialized abilities are needed.
Pete
Pete
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
No need. Most of the field is easy to take off with any old sharp plane and to get into the angle against the raised bit any old rebate/shoulder/carriage etc plane will do. That is if I've got my terminology the right way around - I'm never too sure!
bjgodefr
Established Member
I have one, it's one of the best planes I own. Very versatile.
TheTiddles
Established Member
My first decent block plane was a rebate one, for similar reasons I thought it more adaptable. One day I was bringing some inlay down to level and the open edge caught the veneer and wrote off an entire piece. The next block place I bought was a standard low angle one.
All the skew does is lower angle of the bevel without creating a weak edge, no magic, works the same as any plane.
All the skew does is lower angle of the bevel without creating a weak edge, no magic, works the same as any plane.
Tiddles, I've just fused my brain trying to do the trig. in my head to confirm that, but I cannot see how the apparent edge angle can change across a skewed blade! You'll have to explain it to me with a diagram or something.
I've made a few skewed planes, so I know the angle of the bed is the same at both sides (you use the same template to set out both sides) so presumably any parallel slice at any point between, is also at the same angle. The blade edge is skewed, and the same angle is applied across the edge in grinding & sharpening. It seems to my untutored mind that the edge meets the work at the same apparent angle from one side to t'other. What am I missing..??
Cheers,
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
You are missing the skew. Imagine a normal 30º blade making slicing a cut like a knife - the effective cutting angle approaches 0º, compared to using the blade straight on and getting the full 30º...... What am I missing..??
Cheers,
But a normal skewed blade measured in line of travel won't be much less than 30º.
The point of the skew is more to keep it tight up to the side of a rebate.
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raffo
Established Member
My friend Sasha proposed a good explanation that the angle is less than the bed angle.
If you skew the blade so that the edge skew is zero degrees (no skew), the angle of the blade along the axis of the plane is equal to the bed angle. If you skew the cutter 90 degrees (the extreme, now the edge is parallel to the axis of the plane) the cutting angle is zero. Any skew between zero degrees and 90 degrees is somewhere in between.
Rafael
If you skew the blade so that the edge skew is zero degrees (no skew), the angle of the blade along the axis of the plane is equal to the bed angle. If you skew the cutter 90 degrees (the extreme, now the edge is parallel to the axis of the plane) the cutting angle is zero. Any skew between zero degrees and 90 degrees is somewhere in between.
Rafael
Hmm, I think I should just let this one rest, but as I see it, it has little or nothing to do with cutting angles. Try pressing a knife directly into a piece of wood & it takes a lot of effort to get it to cut, but if you use a slicing action across the fibres (no change to "effective cutting angle" or anything else), it will cut the fibres much more easily.
And as far as having anything to do with having the blade aligned with the edge of the rebate, I can't see it matters if it's a skewed, badgered or straight blade, it's where you align the edge of the blade, surely?
Cheers,
And as far as having anything to do with having the blade aligned with the edge of the rebate, I can't see it matters if it's a skewed, badgered or straight blade, it's where you align the edge of the blade, surely?
Cheers,
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
The skew tends to pull the plane sideways in one direction rather than the other.
There are lots of old wooden rebate planes about - it was obviously a heavily used tool and they are nearly always skewed right handed.
They seem to be the only commonly used skew plane. I think the others are just more novelty planes and nobody quite knows what they are for, as you can skew a cut anyway by just turning the plane a touch.
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The actual difference in performance from the skew comes from the slicing rather than pushing through fibers. The advent of low angle block planes has made a huge group of people think there's some goal to chase getting an angle a couple of degrees lower, but the skew is more valuable.
I calculated a 20 degree skew for a 42 degree bed at one point to change the effective bed angle down the length of the plane about 2 degrees. Skews are definitely no better in long grain and can sometimes be awkward if the grain is working back into the skew along the length.
Maybe an easier way to do this than calculating is just to set up an angle gauge and a triangle block and measure the angle with the triangle straight into the gauge and then skewed 25 degrees or so.
