Veritas PM-V11 plane irons for Stanley & Record

[Sawdust=manglitter]

I was looking to upgrade the plane irons of some of my old Record and Stanley hand planes, and saw that Veritas make some replacements in PM-V11 steel. Has anyone else upgraded any to these? Are they really worth that kind of money?

 

[D_W]

What do you use to sharpen your chisels and plane irons?

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

I have a Tormek T7, but i'll be trying out some of the 3m lapping films shortly too. Just wondering if these blades are worth the investment

 

[D_W]

They are very good blades. If you do a lot of smoothing and you really have disdain for sharpening, you might wince at the initial cost, but you'll appreciate them.

If you've ever tried A-2 steel, they are like a better version of it - about as hard to sharpen, about the same hardness, and finer grained (better for smoothers if you finish off the plane, and better also in the sense that irons that chip fail much earlier than they should for their wear resistance and hardness).

Try one in the smoother you use the most if you're concerned about cost. You'll figure out your opinion on its utility pretty quickly.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I was looking to upgrade the plane irons of some of my old Record and Stanley hand planes, and saw that Veritas make some replacements in PM-V11 steel. Has anyone else upgraded any to these? Are they really worth that kind of money?

They're excellent blades. I have a few that have replaced not only Stanley blades, but also a couple of A2 blades in LN planes. As David mentioned, they hold an edge very well, but the important factor is that the grain is as fine as O1.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[essexalan]

Gone up a lot in price since I bought one but they are excellent blades even better than the laminated Smoothcut blades. For some reason mine came ground at 30 degrees which seems a bit odd but easily resolved. I pushed mine honed at 25 degrees with some knotty cherry, just to test it, and it did suffer some micro chipping but nothing like LV A2, no problems honed with a 30 degree secondary bevel. I use Sigma waterstones, Shaptons do not like PM steels much IMO.

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Thanks all for the input! Very positive reviews so far.

That's what I was thinking of was to treat my no. 4 1/2 smoother with a new PM-V11 blade first, and see how it goes from there.

Did anyone also try a Veritas chip breaker to compliment their new blade? Worth trying... or did the original Stanley/Record chip breaker work happily with the new blade?

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

And to be honest I've not tried A2 or O1 steels, but hopefully the tormek would be ok sharpening the PM-V11?

 

[D_W]

And to be honest I've not tried A2 or O1 steels, but hopefully the tormek would be ok sharpening the PM-V11?

Tormek will grind it. It'll take about twice as long, that's about all. I asked about sharpening only because it's not ideal if you're using natural stones.

re: the cap iron, I never felt the need to change that, but some like to. It won't make any difference in the results of the plane, though, and I'd skip it unless the old cap iron is damaged.

 

[LancsRick]

A2 are good then? Got those on some block planes I picked up and they were really slow to grind, that might explain it!

Presumably these comparisons are much like preferences for kitchen knives? Buy soft, quick to sharpen but dull quickly, buy hard and they're a pain to sharpen but keep it for ages.

 

[Ttrees]

And to be honest I've not tried A2 or O1 steels, but hopefully the tormek would be ok sharpening the PM-V11?

O1 I believe, is the type of steel in Stanley and Record planes.
I believe the very oldest versions are a cast steel though.

I don't know the dates when they stopped the cast ones.
The oldest plane I've got is a American no 8,
I don't know if Patrick's blood and gore plane dating page refers to the American planes, but if it does, It would suggest that my
plane would be a type 9 from 1902 to 1907 and it's not cast.
citation required on this though
Tom

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Any blade is easy and quick to hone when the appropriate strategy is used.

I re-sharpen (free hand) my PM-V11 blades in around 30 - 60 seconds. I can do A2 and M4 in the same time.

For me (your mileage may vary), I hollow grind all my blades. Working with a hollow reduces the amount of steel to work, and this makes all the difference.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[D_W]

A2 are good then? Got those on some block planes I picked up and they were really slow to grind, that might explain it!

Presumably these comparisons are much like preferences for kitchen knives? Buy soft, quick to sharpen but dull quickly, buy hard and they're a pain to sharpen but keep it for ages.

Or buy something in the middle that works well in a whole cycle (like run of the mill japanese knives or decent carbon steel western knives).

That would be the stuff that's similar to vintage irons (works well in a cycle, as long as the person who uses them knows how to sharpen quickly).

A2 is fine if you have something that sharpens and grinds easily, but it is lacking in a cycle of work if you compare it to something like vintage ward and mathieson irons that can be easily maintained with or without power tools.

 

[Trafalgar]

If you machine plane your lumber to thickness, usually leaving only the barest smidgen to clean up with a hand plane (leaving a lot contradicts the installation of machines in the first place) then replacements are a waste of money. If you hand dress your lumber from the rough, replacements could make sense but keep reading.

I've found that edges in the Stanleys and Records I've owned last about as long as I can to the next quick break -- thirty to forty minutes or so. One has to stop and check for wind, flatness, and general planing progress doesn't one? Planing for an hour ++ without a rest and a check of progress and reflection is a recipe for disaster. Maybe have a smoke and do a quick honing and back to work, any honing media will do by the way. I wouldn't let the thought of edges that 'never' go dull become an obsession (intentional hyperbole). If anything, they interrupt a normal shop rhythm rather than add value to it. You tire out before the edge does, take your break and check things, have a wee-wee, get back to work with plenty of energy and halfway into the next cycle the edge finally goes. You're good, the edge isn't. You try to get into sync with the thing but it will always last longer than you can to the next little rest, if honed on break. About the only way to get into some sort of sync is to hone it way before it really needs it, at your break, which of course defeats the entire purpose of buying it in the first place. No thanks. It doesn't get any sharper than any other decent tool steel, maybe not as sharp, why bother?

The takeaway: buy edge tools that go off predictably and last about as long as you can if working reasonably vigorously making solid, workmanlike progress. As long as said tools take a good edge, and Stanley and Record do, all will be well.

If you follow forums long enough you'll find certain folks who gush as reliably as the Old Faithful Geyser in Yellowstone Park over new tools and stuff. First it was A2, then Cryo A2, Ron Hock's carbon steel, now PM V11, I'm likely missing a couple, and I'm sure the list will continue to grow. Add 'em all up, these steels probably haven't planed .001% of the wood that has been planed with Stanley irons over the last hundred years or so.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

When the first became available, I had to try one, just because. I put one in a Record 07 and it has been fine. They take a little longer to sharpen, but not much, so not a problem. They do last ages, though. I had a job planing 18mm MDF, and it lasted phenomenally longer than a regular iron would have on that horrible material. I would say if you use abrasive timbers like iroko it should be on your list. They take a fine edge, too so give a fine finish. I've sharpened them on Waterstons and oilstones, and either work. I do use lapping film occasionally for some tasks, but haven't on the PMv11 yet, but should imagine there would be no trouble. If, however you plane ordinary stuff and you have good length original irons you might just carry on without one, unless 'you need to know.' I don't know how much the sell for now, so might be a bit rich if I didn't have to have one for ornery stuff. I suppose they will pay for themselves in longevity, but I suppose you have to be honest about how much planing you'll do in your life. A weekend warrior might not even see out one regular iron, so longer life is moot.

Mike.

 

[swagman]

And to be honest I've not tried A2 or O1 steels, but hopefully the tormek would be ok sharpening the PM-V11?

That would make you a perfect candidate for PM steel. :lol:

 

[essexalan]

Problem with Record irons is finding good ones the modern versions sharpen up OK but seem somewhat soft and can deform in use, yes there are good ones out there but good luck on finding one. The LV PM blade is a good one but at 80 quid for a double iron is a bit on the expensive side. I don't think there are any other options except for the Smoothcut which will avoid possibly having to modify your plane to get them to fit. If you don't mind modifying your plane then I would go O1 steel or possibly a Quangsheng double iron which would be the cheapest option.

 

[swagman]

The real question is why the new generation of woodworkers, who are more reliant on machinery to dimension their timber, need a more wear resistant steel in their bench planes. If the answer lies in the fact that previous generations who were using 01 steel were more adapt within their sharpening technique, then providing a more wear resistant steel is a short sighted approach that will not address the key issue.

 

[Jacob]

I wouldn't bother replacing a blade until it's worn out. May or may not need more frequent sharpening but this isn't a problem.
Then I'd buy 2nd hand planes, a whole plane will cost less than these dubious new blades. Steel isn't an issue - cheapo rubbish planes often the only bit with any quality is the blade itself.
nb 'PM-V11' doesn't mean anything it's just a bit of advertising hype coming from LV, means much the same as the advertisers 'new' or 'improved'.

 

[G S Haydon]

No question the blades are well made. However, unless you're working laminates, ply, silica rich timber then I would not worry about an upgrade. If you want to try something new then go for it. It'd be interesting to hear how you like it after 6 months of constant use.