Veritas Large Front Vice

[Nomad]

Maybe I should clarify my intended usage. The main function I want is bench dogs that can be used to hold body and neck blanks for solid body electric guitars, primarily for planing and routing, and some shaping and sanding. Some neck work - mainly spokeshave - would be done in a Tirani-style carver's vice clamped to the top of the bench, or to some other bench.

Here's the carver's vice I made...

...and how a neck is typically held in place when shaping the back or fretboard...

The base is 500mm long, and it's 250mm high. It's clamped to this smaller bench at an angle to get comfortable access when using spokeshaves.

For most other work, the carver's vice jaws are too short, and normal bench height is preferable. Neck blanks need length and one dog at each end, guitar bodies (blanks or shaped) are better held with two dogs at each end (or however many work when arranged in such a way as to grip an irregular shape), and need less length. Both need room for a long plane to come off the end. For two-piece guitar bodies, there would be a need to hold the halves in a vice for jointing (pieces about 500mm long, 180mm wide, 45mm thick, jointed on the 45mm wide long faces), which is tricky in the carver's vice.

I've seen many a Paul Sellers video, and what he does with his Record vice, but I rarely find myself doing the sorts of things that he does. For the odd times that I do, I've been able to manage with either the carvers vice, a bench hook, or clamping the piece near the edge of a bench. What I'm missing is a flexible, stable bench dog system (and a decent, heavy bench rather than the horrible Clarke Woodworker effort I'm currently using). As a result, I've been considering making a bench similar to the Sjobergs Elite type, with front and end vices having wooden jaws, using a mechanism like the large Veritas type. The bench would be all beech, with the jaws around 500mm long, faced with leather (as seen on the carver's vice).

If the Veritas vices rack, in which direction(s) does it happen, and what sort of angle out of parallel do the jaws get to?

 

[Jacob]

.......I don't have a QR and I don't miss it. How often do you need to switch between, say, a 1" opening and a 5" opening? My last / current project is all carcass work and I haven't had to open the vice more than two inches. Plus this forum is littered with tales of broken QR mechanisms.

Depends what you are doing. I'm just doing 25 little display trays/boxes which are 13x10x2". Can't quite manage 13" without taking off the wooden jaws but I shift often between 10" and 2". Joinery tends to be flattish but furniture, boxes etc are more 3 dimensional.
Have never broken a QR mech in years of use. They need cleaning once every 5 years or so, but are easy to put back together wrongly - which is probably the main cause of 'broken' mechanisms - not actually broken at all.

 

[Jacob]

Yeah, it racks alright. It lasted a day and a half on my bench before it was replaced with an old Record.

...and I think a quick release vice is essential also. I use a 52 on the front of my bench and a 52 1/2 on the end.

I bet that "quite wide" jaw on the end vice would rack itself out of existence, if the workpiece wasn't central!

BugBear

You put a spacer in the other end and adjust with packing if necessary.

 

[Chip shop]

Yeah, it racks alright. It lasted a day and a half on my bench before it was replaced with an old Record.

...and I think a quick release vice is essential also. I use a 52 on the front of my bench and a 52 1/2 on the end.

I bet that "quite wide" jaw on the end vice would rack itself out of existence, if the workpiece wasn't central!

BugBear

Yeah, but it came in handy once. For the life of me I can't remember what for though :lol:

 

[custard]

Maybe I should clarify my intended usage. The main function I want is bench dogs that can be used to hold body and neck blanks for solid body electric guitars, primarily for planning and routing, and some shaping and sanding. Some neck work - mainly spokeshave - would be done in a Tirani-style carver's vice clamped to the top of the bench, or to some other bench.

I get that.

Some vices are just better than others for specific tasks. Chair making is a fair portion of the work I do, and so when I built my latest bench I elected to have a pattern maker's vice to deal with shaped and angled components. In that capacity it works a treat,

But for dovetailing a pattern maker's vice is a very poor choice. So much so that for dovetailing I've ended up with this clunky arrangement,

As soon as I can find some time I'll build a second bench with a Record 52 1/2 where I'll do my dovetailing, then I can get rid of the Moxon. I've got a pimped 52 1/2 tucked away, just waiting for the bench,

 

[nabs]

On more than one occasion a quick release vice had not properly engaged and when the student went to clamp up their precious work it slipped dropping their work to the floor. .

I think it is fair to say that this is the other flaw in the design - if you catch the nut at the wrong place when you are tightening the handle then the nut can jump slightly and this momentarily opens the jaws a fraction before they begin closing again.

I'd still argue the benefits offset the issues though, but that is just a matter of opinion of course.

I have also seen a number of grumbles about 'faulty' QR mechanisms but they have all been down to the same issue (nut clogged up with sawdust etc). Do these vices frequently break for other reasons? I am sure you could bend the rods, crack the castings, strip threads etc but surey you'd have to use a completely inapprorpriate amount of force to do so...

 

[Jacob]

On more than one occasion a quick release vice had not properly engaged and when the student went to clamp up their precious work it slipped dropping their work to the floor. .

Sounds like a useful learning experience and should only happen once!
People cut themselves with chisels - this isn't an argument against using chisels.

I have also seen a number of grumbles about 'faulty' QR mechanisms but they have all been down to the same issue (nut clogged up with sawdust etc).

Tools need maintenance. Within reason this isn't a design fault. I think I've dismantled mine about twice in 40 years. Probably spent longer 'maintaining' hammers!

Do these vices frequently break for other reasons?

They don't break frequently at all.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I've had that pattern of vice for years, not the Veritas branded one, but obviously made in the same factory. I love them to bits; 2 shoulder vices and one made into a tail vice. I can't say I've had a problem with racking. I'm sure if I put something narrow at the extreme edge of the jaw and cranked the living daylights out if it, then I'm sure it would rack, the same as every other vice I've ever used. But used sensibly, I've not had a problem, and they grip extremely well. They also have (obvious in the OP's link photo) a larger space between one guide rod and the 28mm (huge!) thread, so that wood can be held vertically without any chance of racking what so ever! I would recommend these vices any time, they are great.

 

[nabs]

Within reason this isn't a design fault.

Despite being the world's #1 Record vice fan (fact!) I think it is a correct to describe this as a flaw in the design - and one that Record successfully resolved with the 'screw and nut cover':
evolution-of-the-record-52-1-2-quick-release-vice-t106895-30.html

I am glad to hear that the vices don't break, though!

 

[woodbrains]

There's a workbench in my future, and I'm considering the large Veritas front vices from Axminster...

http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-fron ... sel=474642

I'd appreciate comments from anyone that's used them. In particular...

How well do the guide rods work in terms of keeping everything parallel and free of slop?
What's the minimum depth of bench that's needed excluding the thickness of the moving jaw?
Any issues with fitting?

To be honest, they're utter bobbins. I have one you can have for the price of postage. PM me if you want it, but I wouldn't bother if I was you.

Edit to say: Soz Nabs, didn't mean to undercut you, only read your post after. It's just I'm having a clear out at the mo, and it'd be going in the bin else.

Hello,

I'll have it for some beer tokens if the offer isn't taken by the OP! I'm around North Wales next week, so could pick up?

Mike.

 

[Jake]

Can still recommend the record twin screw

http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=808

 

[Chip shop]

Can still recommend the record twin screw

http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=808

Now that is flippin ace!

 

[MikeJhn]

Looks very good, may have to make one or something similar, although my bench already has the facility for two vice's on the long face so may not bother.

Source for the chain: https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/Simplex-C ... op-14685-p

Source for the gear wheel: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/0183710/

Mike

 

[Jacob]

Have been using, misusing and abusing my Record 52 1/2 E for 30+ years with absolutely no problem and no obvious racking.....All vices and clamping devices will 'rack'

Make up your mind.

Little 'obvious' or problematic racking with the Record, as compared to a lot with others (by all accounts). But zero racking impossible without some very special engineering beyond the needs of woodworkers.
Can't help thinking that if you really needed it Jake's ingenious device would work just as well, or better, as two separate vices - you hold the piece with one then tighten the other if necessary

 

[Nomad]

You mean it racks really badly? OK I take your word for it I'm not surprised! You can tell it's cr&p just looking at the picture.

Are you referring to the small or large one?

 

[Nomad]

Some vices are just better than others for specific tasks. Chair making is a fair portion of the work I do, and so when I built my latest bench I elected to have a pattern maker's vice to deal with shaped and angled components. In that capacity it works a treat,

That looks just the ticket for what you need (if disconcertingly wonky). Can the angle be changed while keeping the piece clamped in the vice?

But for dovetailing a pattern maker's vice is a very poor choice. So much so that for dovetailing I've ended up with this clunky arrangement,

Clamped/bolted to the bench? I had considered a moxon, but wasn't keen for my expected uses. Also thought about a twin screw with a chain, but not sure about the reliability or how tweakable they are for dialling out horizontal racking.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A pattern maker's vice might be perfect for you ......................but the price won't be.

 

[Nomad]

Hello,

I've had that pattern of vice for years, not the Veritas branded one, but obviously made in the same factory. I love them to bits; 2 shoulder vices and one made into a tail vice. I can't say I've had a problem with racking. I'm sure if I put something narrow at the extreme edge of the jaw and cranked the living daylights out if it, then I'm sure it would rack, the same as every other vice I've ever used. But used sensibly, I've not had a problem, and they grip extremely well. They also have (obvious in the OP's link photo) a larger space between one guide rod and the 28mm (huge!) thread, so that wood can be held vertically without any chance of racking what so ever! I would recommend these vices any time, they are great.

Thanks for the feedback. Did you add a slight slope (2°?) to the inside face of the moving jaw, and what was the result?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A vice should be designed to pull tight with parallel faces, you shouldn't need to taper them.

 

[nabs]

the record vices are made with a (small) deliberate taper (top to bottom) to reduce the impact of racking in that direction but rely on the solid steel rods to prevent racking left-to-right. They do this quite successfully, but the jaws will still twist very slightly as the rods are not a perfect fit for the casting (else you would have trouble opening and closing it!).

In my experience the Veritas design is *much* less effective in this respect.