VED - Road Tax

[big soft moose]

I must not feed the troll.

I must not feed the troll.

I must not feed the troll.

the fact that i dont agree with your opinion that its unjust you should have to pay high road tax for a performance car does not make me a troll

forums are for the exchange of views, you have yours i have mine and they arent the same - such is life

It is you who is trying to personalise the debate and turn it into an argument by writing things like " what tosh... thats so judgemental.. just like most of your posts"

so if you want to find a troll you could start by looking in the mirror.

 

[Peter T]

There's always going to be the "a car is just a car" brigade. Who cares; everyone is entitled to their opinion.

What bugs me is when other people feel they have the right to tell me what sort of car I should be driving. Why the hell do they think they have the right to insist we should all be driving around in a boring euroboxes.

If I want to own several vehicles and drive them on a regular basis I will. I still have the right to use whatever money I have left, after the govermnment has taken its cut, for whatever I choose. I don't need any ecomentalist geeks telling me what to do with it!!

 

[big soft moose]

There's always going to be the "a car is just a car" brigade. Who cares; everyone is entitled to their opinion.

What bugs me is when other people feel they have the right to tell me what sort of car I should be driving. Why the hell do they think they have the right to insist we should all be driving around in a boring euroboxes.

If I want to own several vehicles and drive them on a regular basis I will. I still have the right to use whatever money I have left, after the govermnment has taken its cut, for whatever I choose. I don't need any ecomentalist geeks telling me what to do with it!!

and i absolutely agree with that - I'm not being cast as an ecomentalist geek here - as i said my wife drives an mx5 and a good mate drives a lotus elise. (come to that my 1.8tdci focus is not exactly a yoghurt powered eco wagon and i drive a nissan navarra D22 for work ) I am fine with anyone driving whatever they want.

All i am saying is that a performance car is a lifestyle choice not a necessity and therefore it is not unjust (in my opinion) that it should be taxed at a higher rate of VED than less high powered cars

 

[Peter T]

All i am saying is that a performance car is a lifestyle choice not a necessity and therefore it is not unjust (in my opinion) that it should be taxed at a higher rate of VED than less high powered cars

Nonsense.

As a motorist I already contribute huge amounts of tax to the exchequer, in return for which I get very little. Why should I contribute more just because my car is faster than yours

 

[big soft moose]

All i am saying is that a performance car is a lifestyle choice not a necessity and therefore it is not unjust (in my opinion) that it should be taxed at a higher rate of VED than less high powered cars

Nonsense.

As a motorist I already contribute huge amounts of tax to the exchequer, in return for which I get very little. Why should I contribute more just because my car is faster than yours

Because your car uses more fuel than mine, and uses it inefficiently (and therefore has a larger carbon footprint), and also because performance driving puts more wear and tear on the road network, and causes more accidents and other costs to the general exchequer

The ironic thing here is that currently (or at least from april) an RX8 owner pays £310 more road tax than I do on my focus per year (roughly 85p per day).

However going by quoted figures on the net the RX8 uses roughly twice as much fuel per mile than the tdci focus so if those who want to see road tax abolished were succesful they would wind up paying an even greater percentage of the tax burden than me when the government raked it back by increasing duty on fuel

The other ironic thing is people who can afford to buy a car that retails at £23k plus and runs at 25mpg , whinging about the inequity of paying £435 pa to drive their performance toy

like i said I'm fine with you driving whatever you want, however inefficient it is, but dont expect sympathy when you find you have to pay for doing so - like i said the performance car is a choice, and if the £310 premium is such a big deal owners also have the option of swapping to a car in a lower VED bracket

 

[Peter T]

But the extra fuel that my cars use is paid for by me, and the government takes a big chunk out that in the form of duty and VAT. So I am paying more for the privilege of driving a higher performance car.

The irony is that all my cars are pre-2001 so I pay £195, or whatever it is now, VED.

 

[matt]

I guess those that believe that CO2 emissions are bad for the environment may feel that as long as they share the environment they are entitled to an opinion about things that pollute and to express those views openly. If you drive a high polluting car then it can't have escaped you that, like it or not, you're going to be frowned upon in today's society - especially if it's a vehicle of leisure and desire over necessity. Meanwhile, society needs to accept that this will lead to a defensive attitude that will also be expressed openly.

So what's new?! This is a typical conversation with the stereotypical roles surging to the fore. It was never going to go any other way.

With regard to the original point about tax... Despite not being particularly fair because ownership of a high polluting car is not pollution in its own right (i.e. you have to drive it before it pollutes), it does seems surprisingly effective at raising awareness (simply because of these types of discussion), more so than say a tax on petrol. They're playing us like fools.

 

[RogerS]

........

The other ironic thing is people who can afford to buy a car that retails at £23k plus and runs at 25mpg , whinging about the inequity of paying £435 pa to drive their performance toy
......

Jeez...there you go again. You've got more chips on your shoulder than I have in my dust extractor. Who said anything about paying £23k? What is it with you? You seem to be be green with envy or bigoted against anyone who doesn't slavishly adhere to your somewhat sterile world view.

 

[matt]

Might be simpler, Roger, if you described how you'd like to be penalised for driving a car that, when driven, pollutes more than other cars. Tax on fuel?

 

[RogerS]

Might be simpler, Roger, if you described how you'd like to be penalised for driving a car that, when driven, pollutes more than other cars. Tax on fuel?

I'd be very happy with that, Matt.

My original point seems to have been lost in the mire which was that I believe it unjust because one gets hammered if one drives 10 miles or 10000 miles in a year.

 

[Digit]

Which leads me to a very simple question. Just how many posters believe that the higher tax brackets, fuel accelerator, etc have got anything what so ever to do with environmental concerns?
I confess to being surprised that the regular increases in tobacco tax haven't (yet) been classed as part of the 'green agenda.'
Perhaps I should apply for the job of chancellor. Or perhaps I'm just a simple cynic.

Roy.

 

[matt]

I can't argue with preferring to be taxed on fuel on the basis that it is a fairer way of penalising against pollution.

The only caveat I would add is that, for me, it would probably not be as effective. Our second car does not do a lot of miles and is low CO2. If the tax were on fuel then I'd be tempted to buy something a bit more fun and thirsty because I only do low mileage. By contrast I couldn't justify paying a small fortune on VED though so, with the current penalty, I will stick with my cheap to run vehicle. So not only do I do low mileage (green tick), I don't emit much CO2 either (double green tick). I can't help thinking it's the unfairness that actually makes the current penalty quite effective at achieving its objective in a lot of cases - it seems to focus the mind in a way that a drip-tax on fuel does not.

 

[RogerS]

Another interesting point that no-one has made is just exactly how many of these cars are on the road compared to Clios, Aygos etc? 1% 0.1% 0.001% and so just how much extra pollution in the grand scheme of things are they generating.

If the Govt wanted to cut down realistically on the carbon footprint then get rid of or heavily penalise the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet. After all, no-one needs to fly off for a short weekend break.

 

[Lons]

It's amazing how quickly a subject like this gets the juices flowing :lol:

I personally don't "fully" subscribe to the "evil" CO2 argument having delved pretty deeply into both sides. It's surprising how powerful the CO2 counter argument is and how much it's been suppressed. I also have 2 full dvds on the subject, collected from documentaries, not biased organizations.

I take the cynical view that it's a golden opportunity to raise substantial taxes under a banner that's easy to defend. Very little of this money is used for genuine "green" issues and anyone who argues against is immediately ostracized.

We run 3 vehicles but all low mileage. My van bought to serve a specific business need. My wife's mini cooper which she needs to comute to work but was bought because she enjoys driving it! And mine which satisfies my "need" for a luxury car but tempered in that it's a diesel albeit 180 bhp, very fast and comfortable but low emissions and 50mpg. I paid a premium for diesel over petrol which economically didn't make sense over 5000miles pa but does my bit to comply :?

If it ain't just to raise money and pay lip service, why are we paying additional tax on diesel over petrol when it's much less harmful and note that we are as far as I know virtually the only country to do so?
VED is an unfair system and the only logical way IMO is to tax fuel so you pay exactly for what you use but there is already so much tax applied that it would be the final straw for many and political suicide. I for one would not trust a government to follow that route without re-introducing VED again at a later date as ADDITIONAL tax.

I am IMO a green person who recycles as much as possible and saves energy when I can but I am also of the opinion that I've earned the money honestly and paid my dues which is more than many I know of and it's my decision where I spend it and I don't give a fig what others think of that.

This is an argument that will always provoke differing views but isn't that what a forum is for as long as it stays civilised

 

[RogerM]

According to Parkers, SWMBOs Toyota Yaris 1.3 will pay £10 less, and my Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI will cost £5 more. So for once I'm not fussed.

 

[Digit]

We also recycle all that we can, we live in a timber building and use the most efficient boiler we could afford, all this because, whatever the CO2 argument, it makes sense to live in a clean environment.
As regards VED I personally hold the view that the Chancellor is exploiting a captive market. If CO 2 was the target I would ask him why punitive taxes are not also applied to fridges, freezers, washing machines etc, badly insulated or maintained business and private buildings, manufacturing and production based on their CO2 contributions.

Roy.

 

[Lons]

We also recycle all that we can, we live in a timber building and use the most efficient boiler we could afford, all this because, whatever the CO2 argument, it makes sense to live in a clean environment.
As regards VED I personally hold the view that the Chancellor is exploiting a captive market. If CO 2 was the target I would ask him why punitive taxes are not also applied to fridges, freezers, washing machines etc, badly insulated or maintained business and private buildings, manufacturing and production based on their CO2 contributions.

Roy.

I agree 100% Roy but after all, a politician is really only interested in his / his partys' survival and progress.
Hence all the promises starting to be tabled now - later to be quietly submerged never to be seen again!

Bob

 

[Digit]

Yep! And a certain gentleman on here once described me as gullible, and he's correct 'cos I'm daft enough to turn out on May 6th to cast my vote and hope that some promises might just be adhered to.

Roy.

 

[Lons]

Yep! And a certain gentleman on here once described me as gullible, and he's correct 'cos I'm daft enough to turn out on May 6th to cast my vote and hope that some promises might just be adhered to.

Roy.

Yep - me too but doing nowt isn't an option is it!

 

[Digit]

Well it is an option, but more like a cop out IMO.

Roy.