US Election November 5th

[selectortone]

I was in Moscow in 2001 on business. My abiding memory was the amazing architecture of the Metro and the stark contrast of the many beggars down there.

The driving in Moscow is crazy; four or five lanes and a drag race between lights. And every now and then the traffic clearing for a convoy of blacked out limos.

My hotel was opposite Red Square. Quite a sight that is with St Basils Cathedral in the distance and quite a thrill to be walking past Lenin's tomb and looking up at the viewing platform where all those stony faced apparatchiks reviewed the Victory Day parades.

Never try to out-drink a Russian. Especially if you are making a presentation the next morning.

 

[ey_tony]

That’s an interesting insight. I spent a couple of weeks in St Petersburg in 2002 with work and recall the drab high rise housing (and obvious low standard of living) once out of the city centre. The people were very friendly indeed and there were some “fond memories” of the Soviet era particularly among older people. Alcoholism was a big issue.

My favourite memory is spending a Saturday morning firing AK47s and a collection of other Russian weapons. The trip was organised by the hotel concierge. On arrival at an old warehouse we found it was being run by four enterprising Russian soldiers who were supplementing their income by running shooting sessions on the side with their service weapons. It was possible to buy a Makarov pistol but I thought my wife would prefer some duty free perfume …

It’s Putin and his cronies, not the Russian people, who are the problem. My guess is that a visitor to Germany prior to WWII would have also concluded the same thing.

My experience of Russia was spending a considerable amount of time in the provincial regions living as a Russian does and not in the tourist destinations which is generally a far cry from tourist experiences in Moscow and St Petersburgh.
Provincial Russia is far more representative of the real Russia than the two major cities. I'm pragmatic and quickly adapted to their way of living as I'm from quite a humble background so it was easy for me coming from a poor background where you managed on what you had. They expected me to look down on them simply for not having the material things we take for granted in the West so when they realised I didn't they were delighted and it was very humbling I have to say.

In the city I visited most, Chelyabinsk, they had plinths displaying WW2 tanks and huge monster Soviet era steam trains. The trains I took out into rural Russia had wooden slat seats like park benches so after a two hour journey you felt it.
You'd get buskers getting onto the trains to earn their rubles...it made it a social occasion and it was like nothing I'd ever experienced before but was fascinating.

I have my own guns such as a Winchester underlever etc and had owned just about every calibre handgun up to .44 magnum when they were legal so shooting would never have appealed to such as me but I can see the attraction of such an experience for those who've never shot regularly.

At that time the real corruption was with the police...they were the gangsters in the region I visited.

 

[Chris152]

It’s Putin and his cronies, not the Russian people, who are the problem. My guess is that a visitor to Germany prior to WWII would have also concluded the same thing.

I'm not so sure - the National Socialists did a very good job of indoctrinating their people.

 

[Croolis]

Where and when Tony raises a real issue it happens. A large percentage of his posts (excepting the recent interesting Russian piece) are just Daily Mail reader whinges about "the left".

I've got him on ignore now. Just because... what's the point? He just makes me want to do the "silly person" thing and that's not mature, is it.

EDIT: O-M-G, as the kids say. The auto censor thing turns i-d-i-o-t into silly person. How funny is that .

Trump won because he's a demagogue and a populist, and they thrive on pain and fear. Decades of falling living standards and shifting of money up to the mega rich have resulted in people desperate for change.

The Democrats offered more of the same. Trump offered amazing sounding promises, and simple solutions to complex problems.

Just because it's all nonsense doesn't mean it doesn't work. See also Brexit.

He lied to his base voters, promised them everything their neanderthal instincts said they wanted, now he has to deliver. None of those people who voted for him can see past tomorrow IMO, they will never admit their mistake, few do. His "policies" will effect everyone, not just his people.They will be forced to live with the consequences of their actions along with the rest of us.

Yup. See also Brexit . When it becomes as objectively true as it's going to get that it was all a bad idea, they'll double down and say it's still a great idea but they've been betrayed. Rather than say, yup, I got taken in that time.

I've been taken in myself before, you know. Truth hurts and all that, but gotta deal with it.

 

[Jacob]

https://www.brunel.ac.uk/news-and-e...Gorbachev-Twin-portraits-of-a-failed-reformer
Worst thing they did after glasnost was to pick up the new fashion for neo-liberalism and free markets. They were advised by idiots like Thatcher and Reagan. Result; a state run by a mafia like mob. This is where the USA is now trending, but which we have probably escaped. Too soon to say, the tory party looks finished for good and Neo Labour is very unpromising so far.

 

[Jacob]

I've got him on ignore now.

I just have a peek now and then. Very weird his obsession with socialism. Can't be good for him. He will have benefitted like the rest of us, from the extensive forms of "socialism" which are so much part of our economy; NHS and everything else

EDIT: O-M-G, as the kids say. The auto censor thing turns i-d-i-o-t into silly person. How funny is that .

You should see what it does with ****!

Yup. See also Brexit . When it becomes as objectively true as it's going to get that it was all a bad idea, they'll double down and say it's still a great idea but they've been betrayed. Rather than say, yup, I got taken in that time.

I've been taken in myself before, you know. Truth hurts and all that, but gotta deal with it.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I'm not so sure - the National Socialists did a very good job of indoctrinating their people.

On reflection you are probably right - certainly as things progressed through the 1930's. I'm doing an OU History Degree and one of the things I have learned about in looking at the post-war era is the effort that had to go into getting the German people to think beyond National Socialist doctrine after the war.

 

[Jacob]

On reflection you are probably right - certainly as things progressed through the 1930's. I'm doing an OU History Degree and one of the things I have learned about in looking at the post-war era is the effort that had to go into getting the German people to think beyond National Socialist doctrine after the war.

A bit of the history here. Mostly about Israel and the awful similarities with Nazi Germany.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel-gaza-historian-omer-bartov

 

[AJB Temple]

On reflection you are probably right - certainly as things progressed through the 1930's. I'm doing an OU History Degree and one of the things I have learned about in looking at the post-war era is the effort that had to go into getting the German people to think beyond National Socialist doctrine after the war.

In a way it is not dissimilar to the cultural indoctrination of the Japanese prior to WWII and their view of Westerners. Maybe it needs a cataclysmic event to bring about change.

 

[AJB Temple]

A bit of the history here. Mostly about Israel and the awful similarities with Nazi Germany.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel-gaza-historian-omer-bartov

Indeed it is a very good "long read" and I bookmarked it at the time. However, I think at least in this article he tends to gloss over the impact of historical events. The massacre of 6 million jews during WWII was bound to leave an indelible mark on the minds of the jewish people for centuries to come. We can hardly be surprised if they react badly to the events of October 7th, which were clearly intended to be very provocative. Israel has gone over the top in causing deaths to civilians and in so doing lost the battle for international sympathy.

 

[AJB Temple]

PS I'm surprised that you regard Ronald Reagan as an 1 D iot. By most accounts he was an intelligent man with a good grasp of the issues of the day. He was dealing with cold war politics which needed a clear mind and good judgement, Republican politics was nothing like those of the day and from what I have read most Americans give him credit for being a very effective political operator. He had a superb memory and a gift for public speaking.

Obviously we all know what you thing of Thatcher. The fact that she had a good intellect is undeniable though.

 

[Jacob]

.... We can hardly be surprised if they react badly to the events of October 7th, ....

We should be surprised that they treated the Palestinians so appallingly from the start. And not be surprised that Palestinians would fight back.
Palestine had no part in the holocaust, in fact jews/muslims/christians lived (fairly) happily side by side in Palestine earlier.
Another interesting link here: https://www.theworldwar.org/learn/about-wwi/palestine-israel-and-wwi-5-facts-history

 

[RobinBHM]

Trump has promised America:

Food prices will plummet
Gas prices will plummet
Car insurance will be cut in half
Inflation will disappear completely
Bring down mortgage rates
He will deport millions of undocumented immigrants
He will end Ukraine war before being inaugurated
Impose Huge tariffs on foreign goods
Healthcare will become a lot less expensive for everybody

those people on here who said Trump is a much better choice than Harris, would they like to comment on what they think Trump will deliver?

 

[sploo]

Unbelievable.

It was a rather tasteless statement by Jacob (that Israeli hostages are likely dead through Israeli bombardment), but it is worth pointing out that it does happen, and worse, IDF soldiers even killed three Israeli hostages who were waving a white-flag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frien...arly December 2023, three,in Shuja'iyya, Gaza.)

There's also a fair number of accusations that Netanyahu doesn't really care about the hostages; and simply uses their existence as justification to prolong the killing.

All in all it's a tragic and brutal situation for everyone involved (on all sides).

 

[sploo]

Because it is aimed at persuading the majority to submit to a poorer quality of life in order to keep the mega rich rich, under the pretence that this is somehow good for all.

PS to quote Jamie Driscoll:
"Neoliberalism boils down to simple proposition. Let rich people invest in whatever way works for them. After all, if they didn’t know what they were doing, they wouldn’t be rich.
It is not free-market economics. Neoliberalism uses the state to protect the interests of the wealthy. Using taxpayers to subsidise their corporations. Using laws to protect their monopolies. Setting up cash cows like PFI. Creating regulatory frameworks so they can’t go to jail for dumping tonnes of sewage into rivers. It is the capture of the state by the megarich."

Not really. The left is about how to manage things for the benefit of all, with quality of life as the priority, over and above market economics and rule by finance.

I agree completely with all of the above, apart from the final sentence; purely because the first part is talking about the extreme (economic) right - so it's only fair to note that the extreme (economic) left can be just as bad (see most states that used communism).

 

[Jacob]

It was a rather tasteless statement by Jacob (that Israeli hostages are likely dead through Israeli bombardment), but it is worth pointing out that it does happen, and worse, IDF soldiers even killed three Israeli hostages who were waving a white-flag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire_during_the_Israel–Hamas_war#:~:text=Hostages,-Further information: Israeli&text=In early December 2023, three,in Shuja'iyya, Gaza.)
....

er - what's taste got to do with it?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

PS I'm surprised that you regard Ronald Reagan as an 1 D iot.

I'm not. He regards everyone he disagrees with as one.

 

[Scruples]

What was that phrase the Brexiters used? Ah yes, I remember: “You lost, get over it”.

Indeed it was. Now, get over it and plan for a better future.

 

[sploo]

Anyway, let's look to the likely future (nothing ground breaking here, but interesting nonetheless):

 

[RobinBHM]

God knows what Trump's solution would be

Trump will empower Putin.

Putin is a close ally with Iran and is involved with funding and supplying weapons to Hamas and Hezbollah.

Trump will feed the Middle East crisis