US Election November 5th

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I think I now understand Musk's involvement. 60% tariff on China is gonna make Tesla vehicles far more attractive than the Chinese opposition to USA consumers.
But you miss the point that the manufacturing for export in China is massively subsidised by their government.
So the import subsidies just mitigate the subsidy at source.
Without the hidden subsidy at source, these vehicles would not be so cheap in the showrooms.
 
However reading the rest of your comments in essence, you clearly WANT Trump and his policies to fail, which really does explain the arguably bitter left wing mindset.
It's not that we want his policies to fail, we just don't want his policies.
Often with policies like those being floated, there is no foresight or critical thinking about what the logical conclusion of such a policy would be. Just in the moment, knee-jerk 'legislating".
When/if a bad policy fails, it can be worse than if it were to succeed.
 
It's not that we want his policies to fail, we just don't want his policies.
Often with policies like those being floated, there is no foresight or critical thinking about what the logical conclusion of such a policy would be. Just in the moment, knee-jerk 'legislating".
When/if a bad policy fails, it can be worse than if it were to succeed.
Exactly. Same issue for Brexit; I would have been very surprised if it'd have "worked" but it would have been great to have been wrong. Sadly, as predicted by basically anyone that knew anything about international law or trade, it's been (and continues to be) a clown show. There's no point in posting some of the details of the issues (delays at ports, negative impact to the UK economy etc), because we've long established that facts and evidence don't matter in that discussion.
 
Exactly. Same issue for Brexit; I would have been very surprised if it'd have "worked" but it would have been great to have been wrong. Sadly, as predicted by basically anyone that knew anything about international law or trade, it's been (and continues to be) a clown show. There's no point in posting some of the details of the issues (delays at ports, negative impact to the UK economy etc), because we've long established that facts and evidence don't matter in that discussion.

I'd also add that the *people who pointed out that Brexit was so very clearly obviously going to fail* do not wield any power to make it fail.
Saying that it is those people's fault that Brexit is a failure is so clearly absurd it is beyond preposterous.
Not unlike Liz Truss telling her compliant media that "it was the lefties what stopped my policies working." Deluded beyond belief.

To be clear, neither you nor I nor all of the 48% together combined can do anything to sway the balance of success either way. (Actually I'm not a 48%er but you get the point...)
It's like saying that" wishing things better" will make it so. That mentality is for the birds.
 
you clearly WANT Trump and his policies to fail
That’s because the people of the USA will be better off if his policies fail.


Trumps policies are designed to damage democracy, ramp up hatred and division, he wants to enact cruel policies on immigrants, he will cut taxes for the rich increasing wealth inequality.



They wanted Brexit to fail
Brexit massively increased non tariff barriers with our largest and nearest trade partner, you can’t turn self imposed trade sanctions into a benefit……no matter how hard you try to believe
 
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To deal with climate change we need to end "growth" on very many fronts. Growth is the main cause.
Growth may have some impact but greed has an even bigger one along with our materialistic lifestyles. The only way to fix climate change would be to turn the clocks back to when we lived much simpler lives and valued our possesions, now we have far to much choice in a throwaway society.
 
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Growth may have some impact but greed has an even bigger one along with our materialistic lifestyles. The only way to fix climate change would be to turn the clocks back to when we lived much simpler lives and valued our possesions, now we have far to much choice in a throwaway society.

Plastic being one of those materialistic, consume, then throw away, extremely problematic items...
 
Many sources from both sides of the Atlantic disagree with you.

Here is but one that I believe puts it rather well:

The Hill


Additionally, is your overall awareness limited and your hostility biased? When you ask "what kind of hard of thinking leader would be open [sic] hostile to a potential leader of the free world", did you not realise that members of *other political parties* travelled to USA to openly campaign for Trump and were "openly hostile to a potential leader of the free world"?
Well, reading that, I can agree that Starmer had no benefit to gain from interferring with US voting.
However, the article skips over that and ploughs into the historic defeat of the English and its own independence, followed by a right-wing diatribe about how the US is under attack from foreign agencies and directs the reader into believing that Trump is the saviour.
Political, and biased, journalism is the worst kind.
 
It's not that we want his policies to fail, we just don't want his policies.
Often with policies like those being floated, there is no foresight or critical thinking about what the logical conclusion of such a policy would be. Just in the moment, knee-jerk 'legislating".
When/if a bad policy fails, it can be worse than if it were to succeed.
How are things at the moment, with you, your family and community?

We are almost all in the U.K. on this thread and aren’t in the thick of it, It would great to hear what it’s been like on the ground and how people feel knowing they have another 4 years of right wing populism.
 
How are things at the moment, with you, your family and community?

We are almost all in the U.K. on this thread and aren’t in the thick of it, It would great to hear what it’s been like on the ground and how people feel knowing they have another 4 years of right wing populism.
My five American brothers in law and their families are all asking if they can come and stay with us. I get the impression that their overall feeling is a mixture of disbelief and profound depression.
 
We are almost all in the U.K. on this thread and aren’t in the thick of it, It would great to hear what it’s been like on the ground and how people feel knowing they have another 4 years of right wing populism.
We'll, most of them who voted, voted for t-w-at face, so presumably happy enough?

Here's something not discussed really: control of Congress , control of judiciary (probably permanently), immunity, stated aim of altering structure of civil service, track record of not respecting democratic process. Assuming he doesn't drop dead, and if he does, this still applies to successor - what's going to happen in 2028? Will he run again. Only FDR in wartime ever did 3 terms I think. That the bit everyone should really be worrying about.
 
My five American brothers in law and their families are all asking if they can come and stay with us. I get the impression that their overall feeling is a mixture of disbelief and profound depression.
I saw a youtuber saying she's wishing she'd moved to Europe when she had the chance. But these are small samples.
 
One thing I find rather amusing is that people are always bemoaning the fact that politicians lie, are evasive etc etc.
Yet when Boris, and to an extent Lammy make what are on the face of it perfectly reasonable assesments of Trump, and or some of his policies we howl that they shouldn't have done so. Equally when Starmer congratulates him, and makes some positive comments we howl "no the man's a t**t".
I agree it is impolitic for people in government to make critical comments like this, or to suck up to the man, but isn't there a bit of a double standard on show?
We want our politicians to be truthful, except when we'd rather they weren't :)
 
Well, reading that, I can agree that Starmer had no benefit to gain from interferring with US voting.
However, the article skips over that and ploughs into the historic defeat of the English and its own independence, followed by a right-wing diatribe about how the US is under attack from foreign agencies and directs the reader into believing that Trump is the saviour.
Political, and biased, journalism is the worst kind.

So you agree that the writer is a right wing diatribe merchant. From the USA.
Does it not then follow that if the UK-US Special Relationship was under threat that it is this very type of person that would be propagating that message in the US right wing media?
What it illustrates is, from the viewpoint of the US right wing, there is no issue.

(I also refute that Starmer "interfered" with the US campaign. It is a matter of record that US and UK politic have for many years crossed the Atlantic to show support to their "aligned" organisations. That was just for a campaign. Neither Starmer himself nor the Labour Party were directly involved in campaign. You can't say that of some other UK politic, yet that goes completely unreported/unnoticed/ignored. The campaign is now over and there is a winner and a loser. And that's the end of it.)
 
My five American brothers in law and their families are all asking if they can come and stay with us. I get the impression that their overall feeling is a mixture of disbelief and profound depression.
My guess is that isn’t the prevailing mood overall. Assuming those who did not vote are shrugging their shoulders, Trump won the popular vote and that makes those who voted for Harris outnumbered. That’s not meant to suggest they represent an insignificant minority.

I share your astonishment at where it has ended up. Hopefully the Democrats quickly find the right person to rally behind. Whatever we think Harris obviously did not connect with voters - the biggest question for me is how in a world where news/opinion is driven by social media the inaccurate facts and lies can be countered.
 
One thing I find rather amusing is that people are always bemoaning the fact that politicians lie, are evasive etc etc.
Yet when Boris, and to an extent Lammy make what are on the face of it perfectly reasonable assesments of Trump, and or some of his policies we howl that they shouldn't have done so. Equally when Starmer congratulates him, and makes some positive comments we howl "no the man's a t**t".
I agree it is impolitic for people in government to make critical comments like this, or to suck up to the man, but isn't there a bit of a double standard on show?
We want our politicians to be truthful, except when we'd rather they weren't :)
Well, foreign policy is a bit of a different beast. I expect disingenuousness when it comes to how world leaders and foreign secretaries speak about each other.
 
One thing I find rather amusing is that people are always bemoaning the fact that politicians lie, are evasive etc etc.
Yet when Boris, and to an extent Lammy make what are on the face of it perfectly reasonable assesments of Trump, and or some of his policies we howl that they shouldn't have done so. Equally when Starmer congratulates him, and makes some positive comments we howl "no the man's a t**t".
I agree it is impolitic for people in government to make critical comments like this, or to suck up to the man, but isn't there a bit of a double standard on show?
We want our politicians to be truthful, except when we'd rather they weren't :)
Perhaps it’s about the way they do it. The use of “recollections may vary” by the late Queen is perhaps a good practical lesson for them.
 
My guess is that isn’t the prevailing mood overall. Assuming those who did not vote are shrugging their shoulders, Trump won the popular vote and that makes those who voted for Harris outnumbered. That’s not meant to suggest they represent an insignificant minority.

I share your astonishment at where it has ended up. Hopefully the Democrats quickly find the right person to rally behind. Whatever we think Harris obviously did not connect with voters - the biggest question for me is how in a world where news/opinion is driven by social media the inaccurate facts and lies can be countered.
I agree. I never meant to suggest that it was the prevailing mood, or a representative sample. Just my own personal experience.
 

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