US Election November 5th

[Croolis]

I find it shocking that the Republican Party that was always strong on defence has become the party of running away from Ukraine and capitulating to Putin

I reckon they could stop fracking and just get all their energy by attaching magnets to Reagan's spinning corpse.

 

[Fergie 307]

I'm not sure I have seen this post, if that reference is from a post




I take the view that withdrawal from Afghanistan was long overdue as it had been clear for some time to most that there was very little to gain from remaining there. I have made my point about the use of words in a previous post so won't repeat myself and have not suggested that the peace agreement was negotiated by any other administration than the Trump one.

However, the Biden administrations decision to delay the withdrawal in order to withdraw on a date that was purely symbolic rather than tactical, and it also allowed opposing forces more time to organise and was a colossal error of judgement. So to land this as a Trump phuck up because it suits your political position is just glossing over inconvenient facts.

My point isn't that Trump is better, or would have handled things better. My point is, framing this as a Trump administration disaster that a Biden administration can absolve themselves of because it suits your political alliances or personal feelings about an individual is misleading and disingenuous.

I'm not sure I have seen this post, if that reference is from a post



I take the view that withdrawal from Afghanistan was long overdue as it had been clear for some time to most that there was very little to gain from remaining there. I have made my point about the use of words in a previous post so won't repeat myself and have not suggested that the peace agreement was negotiated by any other administration than the Trump one.

However, the Biden administrations decision to delay the withdrawal in order to withdraw on a date that was purely symbolic rather than tactical, and it also allowed opposing forces more time to organise and was a colossal error of judgement. So to land this as a Trump phuck up because it suits your political position is just glossing over inconvenient facts.

My point isn't that Trump is better, or would have handled things better. My point is, framing this as a Trump administration disaster that a Biden administration can absolve themselves of because it suits your political alliances or personal feelings about an individual is misleading and disingenuous.

Third paragraph of post 1017.

I agree the withdrawal was long overdue.
And as such I agree that in principle characterising it as a surrender is by no means justified, but some people do.
My observation was simply that it is odd for people like Tony to blame it entirely on Biden.
Let's apportion the blame fairly.
Trump was the man who signed up to the withdrawal agreement, so anyone who feels that in itself was wrong needs to blame him.
Likewise it was Biden who broke the terms of it and presided over the implementation, so criticism of that can be laid at his door.
I think it is entirely fair to point out that the Trump administration having signed up to the deal, then did nothing to plan how it would actually be done. That lack of planning would have caused Trump just as many problems had he remained in office as it did Biden.
Would he have handled it better? Possibly, but we will never know.
Nothing partisan about it, neither party exactly covered themselves in glory.

 

[NickDReed]

Third paragraph of post 1017.

Thanks for signposting.

Yes, a somewhat simplistic view on a very complex 20 year occupation, expressed in as equally partizan way as it seems to rile against.

My observation was simply that it is odd for people like Tony to blame it entirely on Biden.
Let's apportion the blame fairly.
Trump was the man who signed up to the withdrawal agreement, so anyone who feels that in itself was wrong needs to blame him.
Likewise it was Biden who broke the terms of it and presided over the implementation, so criticism of that can be laid at his door.

Totally agree, it's equally misleading to represent it as Bidens mess as it is to represent it as Trumps.

 

[sploo]

Intellect ? An oxymoron, surely.

There is something deeply ironic about trying to insult others' intellect by indicating it's an oxymoron; when you clearly don't appear to understand the meaning of the word.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oxymoron

 

[Spectric]

He's got a long history of seeding the idea of us being under attack from foreigners,

The reason why the UK is in such a mess is that we are now just afraid of talking about so many issues with many just swept under the carpet and so the problems just fester. There is nothing wrong in talking about anything because that is the basis of free speech and people can only make decisions if presented with the facts, all that Nigel is presenting are some home truths. If you are of a fragile disposition that cannot handle some facts that you may not like then just turn away or don't watch that program and go and do some woodworking which is far more rewarding than most of the stuff shown on that box in the living room.

The real reason is Trumps business involvement with Russians

Is it not better to have trade than war ? If the Americans had not been so frightened of Russia after WW2 and got involved in the "cold war" and instead embraced Russia and brought them into the fold as a trading partner then the world would be a much better place now. There may never have been a Vietnam war, invasion of Iraq or Afghan and many countries would be financially better off, maybe some technology would not have advanced so quickly as the need to kill and take advantage would not have been there which sadly does drive innovation.

 

[Croolis]

When I see someone referring to Nigel Farage as "Nigel" I shudder. Just like I shudder when I see someone referring to Elon Musk as "Elon".

He's not your mate.

 

[sploo]

The reason why the UK is in such a mess is that we are now just afraid of talking about so many issues with many just swept under the carpet and so the problems just fester. There is nothing wrong in talking about anything because that is the basis of free speech and people can only make decisions if presented with the facts, all that Nigel is presenting are some home truths. If you are of a fragile disposition that cannot handle some facts that you may not like then just turn away or don't watch that program and go and do some woodworking which is far more rewarding than most of the stuff shown on that box in the living room.

Absolutely not. What Farage does is take tiny snippets of truths and mixes them with a healthy dose of misinformation. As an example; some years ago he made claims about a rise in immigration in Scandinavian countries causing a rise in rapes. If you took a brief look at the data on such cases it appeared that he had a point. However - just a little look deeper - showed that the rise was due to the way those countries record such cases (if I recall correctly, all types of sexual assaults were being recorded under "rape"). The other parts of his story were of course nonsense.

But, to a casual eye it appeared to be true, and would stoke distrust - and potential violence - against groups who weren't actually making any difference to those stats.

That's Farage's MO, and always has been. Misinformation in order to cause fear of bogeymen; bogeymen that he claims he can protect us from, if you'll just give him your vote.

 

[sploo]

Is it not better to have trade than war ? If the Americans had not been so frightened of Russia after WW2 and got involved in the "cold war" and instead embraced Russia and brought them into the fold as a trading partner then the world would be a much better place now. There may never have been a Vietnam war, invasion of Iraq or Afghan and many countries would be financially better off, maybe some technology would not have advanced so quickly as the need to kill and take advantage would not have been there which sadly does drive innovation.

It's not trade though, it's ownership. I understand that Trump finds it hard to get lines of credit from US banks because of his terrible reputation. The claim (and I would note it is a claim - I've never seen any hard evidence of it being true) is that he has credit from Russian banks. Putin owns Russia; no bank would lend large amounts without his implicit approval. The argument therefore is that Putin then owns Trump.

Is it true? Maybe. Maybe not - but it is one of the reasons raised for why Trump won't release his tax returns (because it would show to whom he owes money).

 

[Croolis]

Absolutely not. What Farage does is take tiny snippets of truths and mixes them with a healthy dose of misinformation. As an example; some years ago he made claims about a rise in immigration in Scandinavian countries causing a rise in rapes. If you took a brief look at the data on such cases it appeared that he had a point. However - just a little look deeper - showed that the rise was due to the way those countries record such cases (if I recall correctly, all types of sexual assaults were being recorded under "rape"). The other parts of his story were of course nonsense.

But, to a casual eye it appeared to be true, and would stoke distrust - and potential violence - against groups who weren't actually making any difference to those stats.

That's Farage's MO, and always has been. Misinformation in order to cause fear of bogeymen; bogeymen that he claims he can protect us from, if you'll just give him your vote.

And not only that ^^, all this garbage about the country being in a state because we're all too scared THOUGH WE REALLY THINK IT to bang on about the bleeding immigrants who of course are the real problem just like the lefties and the sodding woke people mean we're not allowed TO SAY NUFFIN THESE DAYS and if only we were, we'd put the bleeding criminals where they belong we'd stop up the borders and nobody would let sex changes happen any more - is just that, sodding garbage.

Because that's really the problem, isn't it? Not being able to say we think . It's not really runaway bankers, lying and corrupt politicians, unfettered global capitalism, false media, false belief in unending resources, environment destruction, overpopulation (unless of course it's where the little sh*t immigrants have been) and everything else.

Not allowed to say what we think? If you really weren't allowed to say what you thought right now they'd be on their way to your house right fooking now to explain to you what it is you ought to be saying. And thinking.

Ffs, get your head around the fact that your mates Donald and Nigel are not here to help you. The difference between Thatcher, Blair, Harris, Clinton, Biden, Reagan, sodding Corbyn and even George f*cktard W Bush versus Trump, Farage, Johnson and the other crop of pineapples in our wonderful modern age is that the former, no matter what their other agendas and faults, will actually try and run the country at least, and not just take all of us solely for a hubristic little ride just 'cos it'll earn them a few quid and be a ripping good laugh.

Jesus, some of you people are so obtuse it's scary. Aren't you old enough to know a shyster when you see one?