US Election November 5th

[JSW]

Frankly when debating gets to the level of one poster labelling another as a red neck or socialist elitist then frankly both sides have lost the debate.

Aka Godwin's law

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Kamala Harris is adapting.

Her strategy is working on younger voters and female voters as well as “double haters” - those people who don’t want Trump or a frail Biden.

Trump has nailed his campaign to a mast with his appointment of VP, so all he can do is double down on his middle aged MAGA base.

I totally applaud the likely adoption of Kamala Harris as presidential candidate and wish her luck.

Trump made Biden look old and out of touch (at best). He was entirely comfortable with outright unsubstantiated character assassination - eg: "crooked Joe Biden".

She can make Trump look an elderly anachronism whose time is truly past. She can appeal far more to the young, female, and minority groups. But she needs to be very tough - give as good as she gets. US politics makes the UK Starmer/Sunak debates seem respectful discussions over tea.

Remember the Trump - Hilary Clinton debates. He totally dominated physically and verbally. Hilary seemed to think the best response was rational debate - it failed. Kamala needs to be prepared to give as good as she gets - interrupt, accuse, ridicule, insult etc to be taken seriously.

 

[Jacob]

I think calling people ‘red necks’ is worse because it’s a racially based form of abuse.

Pointing out the holy than though liberal orthodoxy of the day for abusing people, is nkt the same.

Asking for a friend; Is "blue collar" different from "redneck" or can you be both?
He doesn't want to offend anybody; which of these do you think would be most politically correct ; hick, hillbilly, bumpkin, clodhopper, hayseed, rube, rustic, yokel, backwoodsman, backwoodswoman, boor, country boy/girl, country cousin, countryman/woman, farmer, good old boy, local yokel?

 

[sploo]

Asking for a friend; Is "blue collar" different from "redneck" or can you be both?
He doesn't want to offend anybody; which of these do you think would be most politically correct ; hick, hillbilly, bumpkin, clodhopper, hayseed, rube, rustic, yokel, backwoodsman, backwoodswoman, boor, country boy/girl, country cousin, countryman/woman, farmer, good old boy, local yokel?

I would consider "blue collar" to not be offensive; indeed a lot of workers (factory, industrial etc) would likely be proud of what they do (and have no problem being called a "blue collar" worker; vs the "white collar" office staff). As far as I understand, the term "redneck" is generally used as an insult; and it certainly doesn't help a debate on US politics to use it.

 

[sploo]

Ah yes populism.
That thing the political elites and their client chattering class refer to, when not getting their way.

That's not what populism means.

The Wikipedia article on the subject has a very good summary:

"[Populism's] core consists of four distinct but interrelated concepts:

• The existence of two homogeneous units of analysis: 'the people' and 'the elite'.
• The antagonistic relationship between the people and the elite.
• The idea of popular sovereignty.
• The positive valorisation of 'the people' and denigration of 'the elite'."

The great irony being that - at least in the US and the UK, those who talk the most about "the elite" (in negative terms) are almost always of, from, and for, the elite - but use the above concepts in order to try to attract the vote of the people.

 

[RobinBHM]

Remember the Trump - Hilary Clinton debates. He totally dominated physically and verbally. Hilary seemed to think the best response was rational debate - it failed. Kamala needs to be prepared to give as good as she gets - interrupt, accuse, ridicule, insult etc to be taken seriously

Beating narcissistic liars is never easy

There’s a big difference with Hiliary Clinton….the right had been attacking her for years, Kamala Harris is a bit unknown and they so far haven’t got a strategy.

What will be interesting is how Trump deals with the fact he is on the wrong side of most key policy areas.

And Trump is pushing Project 2025 which the is not popular even amongst Republics


Personally I think it will be touch and go but I’d says it’s Kamala Harrises to lose

 

[sploo]

And Trump is pushing Project 2025 which the is not popular even amongst Republics

Having just read a little about the aims of Project 2025, and combined with the recent US Supreme Court diktat that basically declares whatever a president does to be universally legal... I can't possibly see how any of that could go bad.

On an entirely unrelated subject, anyone know if it's possible to emigrate from the planet?

 

[Jacob]

News to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

 

[RobinBHM]

Having just read a little about the aims of Project 2025, and combined with the recent US Supreme Court diktat that basically declares whatever a president does to be universally legal... I can't possibly see how any of that could go bad.

On an entirely unrelated subject, anyone know if it's possible to emigrate from the planet?

News to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

A Trump presidency with project 2025 is extremely dangerous

This election is going to be one of the most important ever in American history

 

[danst96]

I totally applaud the likely adoption of Kamala Harris as presidential candidate and wish her luck.

Trump made Biden look old and out of touch (at best). He was entirely comfortable with outright unsubstantiated character assassination - eg: "crooked Joe Biden".

She can make Trump look an elderly anachronism whose time is truly past. She can appeal far more to the young, female, and minority groups. But she needs to be very tough - give as good as she gets. US politics makes the UK Starmer/Sunak debates seem respectful discussions over tea.

Remember the Trump - Hilary Clinton debates. He totally dominated physically and verbally. Hilary seemed to think the best response was rational debate - it failed. Kamala needs to be prepared to give as good as she gets - interrupt, accuse, ridicule, insult etc to be taken seriously.

The debates are going to be a farce from kamala. Spend some time watching her, she's hopeless in open debate where there's no teleprompter, worse than Biden. She talks around in circles and offers no substance.

I'm not holding Trump any higher, just staying an observation from seeing kamala speak, it's not going to be pretty. She's polished when she has her prompts, lost without them which I think offers more into her ability as a politician than just a speaker.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I would be concerned about Project 2025 if for no other reason that it is being initiated by Trump - a flawed individual whose motives cannot be trusted.

Structures, roles and responsibilities in US political and public administration are an accumulation of changes over a couple of centuries. Some ill-considered, some unintended consequences, some simply expedient at the time. That they need an overhaul is a reasonable proposition.

The UK is almost certainly worse - the accumulation of 5-600 years of monarchy and parliamentary interaction. One could take the view that it "sort of works", or radically review all to make it fit for the next 100 years, rather than the accumulated compromises and errors of the last 500.

A few of possible areas for improvement, or at least critical review. There are almost certainly many others - the last 500 years has seen the birth of the internet, air travel, population growth, empire has been and gone, we live in a global community (not always harmoniously) not nation states.

• properly documented roles and responsibilities for House of Commons, Lords, and Monarchy. We should not have to rely upon constitutional experts to interpret ancient acts, procedures and tradition to pronounce on how the constitution should work.
• Election, retirement, roles, numbers etc - of the second chamber (HoL). The last 50 years has seen odd bits of inadequate, tinkering, not overhaul.
• MPs - right number, pay levels, term in office, sanctions for misbehaving
• align local government with national responsibilities - there should be a direct line of sight/electoral accountability from local to national government.
• local democracy is a sham - central government specifies the delivery and largely controls the purse strings. More/less regional devolution -align responsibilities with accountability and budgetary control.
• review whether FPTP is still working - would governance benefit from a mixed system - part FPTP partly reflecting overall voting patterns. Or any other variation.
• should senior civil servants be in the "line of fire" for the delivery of public services or retain the substantial fiction they are politically neutral only serving their minister.

 

[Noel]

P2025 is not a Trump initiative, it's something from the Heritage Foundation, the supposedly charitable thinktank in DC funded by the likes of the Koch Corp, Robert Mercer (also gave to the Brexit cause) and many other conservative mega donors. Bit like Tufton St but waay more influence.
If Trump succeeds I imagine he'll do as he's told and we'll see the Heritage Foundation basically forming US gov policy much as it did in 2016.
Look up P2025, it's quite frightening, basically every progressive improvement to society over the last 50 yrs abolished and "Yes" men placed in every decision making position in government, state and country wide. The 3 branches of government may well be under more threat.

On another note, I wonder if JD Vance will become a problem for Trump and the GOP? Someone who is further right than Trump himself and loves the limelight. Just a thought but perhaps he's been groomed for 2028....

As for Harris, wonder who'll be her running mate assuming she gains the DNC nomination? Pete Buttigieg or perhaps Tim Walz? No doubt others will be considered.

Interesting times ahead.......

 

[Agent_zed]

Your whole post is based in arrogance and snobbery.
You should have referred to them as ‘the little people’, instead if “groups”.
The Putin schtick is just a continuation of the factually debunked Hillary and Obama stuff. We’re doing it now here with Farage. If you step outside the ‘socially left elite message’ you are isntantly aligned with Putin.
The most hillariois thing about this, is that those doing this, are signalling to normal people, that they are likely not a trust worthy interlocutor.
All those ranting against Trump and clutching their pearls, are equally as bad as those who worship Trump. You’re the opposite side of the same coin.
Those claiming everythjng is a russian conspiracy are as bad as the Qannon lot.

Actually take some time to think about Trumps obsession with dictators and the comments he makes. He constantly praises them for their brilliance and iron fist approach to keeping people where they want them. He now has presidential immunity after stacking the supreme court in his favour. The entire point of not having the ability for one person to be above the law is ripped to shreds.

When you invite Viktor Mihály Orbán to your house and praise him, you don't get to say it's all a conspiracy from the left.

 

[Keith Cocker]

Ah yes populism.
That thing the political elites and their client chattering class refer to, when not getting their way.

You really have all the cliches off pat! Well done. It beats thinking for yourself doesn’t it!

 

[RobinBHM]

The debates are going to be a farce from kamala. Spend some time watching her, she's hopeless in open debate where there's no teleprompter, worse than Biden. She talks around in circles and offers no substance.

I have seen some debates where she has been rather poor, but I think you are taking a rather biased view, here is an open VP debate versus Mike Pence, I dont see any evidence of "talking around in circles and offering no substance", it all seemed very clear to me



here is another open debate with Kamala Harris, this one is a bit mixed, but Harris still spoke quite clearly (IMO)



Unfortunately there isnt much stuff online for Harris in the past that I can find, Id be interested to see more videos of some previous debates where she has been poor...if she was bad in debates, hopefully she will have improved recently




My concern is how she would deal nasty, dishonest strategy Trump will use..........he will be a stream of lies and insults, he will try to dominate her physically and continuously speak over her. Kamala needs a good strategy to close Trump down and stop his Invective pushing through

Trump has no actual policies, no understanding of detail, he is good at being a cult leader, thats pretty much it

 

[sploo]

Trump has no actual policies

What are you talking about? He's got the best policies. The best. Many people are saying they're the best. The best. Not like that crooked Hillary Pelosi. The best.

Ahem.

 

[selectortone]

Well, he is the world's best person. He said so himself.

 

[curryjunkie]

Beating narcissistic liars is never easy

There’s a big difference with Hiliary Clinton….the right had been attacking her for years, Kamala Harris is a bit unknown and they so far haven’t got a strategy.

What will be interesting is how Trump deals with the fact he is on the wrong side of most key policy areas.

And Trump is pushing Project 2025 which the is not popular even amongst Republics


Personally I think it will be touch and go but I’d says it’s Kamala Harrises to lose

I see it as a toss up, if Harris can highlight the abortion IVF ban proposed, and point out what trump failed to do domestically, she stands a good chance of attracting swing voters, if those voters feel they are worse off under Biden's time in office , trump may still win. Of course surprises could still happen on either side.

 

[RobinBHM]

A key Republican has said in a interview he can’t support Trump and is preferring Kamala Harris

 

[Delaney]

Biden may not have been aware of his deterioration, or possibly in denial.

Those close to him can't fail to have noticed - but telling the boss his brain is turning to porridge (sorry to be blunt) is made more difficult by the fact that job, influence (close to the seat of power), and income will all be put at risk when the boss goes.

So they continued to reinforce his view he's doing a great job - until it's too late to hide the evidence.

The very simple fact - just about 50% of US voters think Trump is the man to lead the country. To the Trump contingent, angry extreme criticism indicates Democratic failure to even see. let alone fix, all that the Republicans think is broken

It is more likely to provoke increased loyalty, than a realisation that Trump is really that flawed. Mr and Mrs Redneck need to be persuaded, not verbally harassed!

Everyone knew. We’ve been saying it for years. I have every good reason to believe that those in power knew before he was anointed at the DNC.
The party saw him as a ticket to ride and empty vessel. Someone who would spend most the time sleeping and being deliberately mislead and confused by some of the greatest politcal minds in the world. Meanwhile they could run the country and do what they wanted. They effectively hollowed out the most important position in the free world.

The same people (most likely wall street types and neo- cons) did this in the 90’s under Bill Clinton. Bill was so distracted by his enoous sex scandals, that Greenspan and wall street took over, bankrupting South Korea and committing regime change in Indonesia. (If reports are to be belived)

These types were trying to keep the whole thing going for another 4 years but Joe just couldn’t hang on. Now they’ve jumped ship to identity politics to win

Either way, non of this looks good at all.