US Election November 5th

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punishing the UK
The U.K. chose to leave the Single Market.

The U.K. chose to lose the benefits of frictionless trade.

No punishment was involved.

It seems to me that the people accepted that in favour of the benefits of leaving
vote leave promised benefits, none of them have materialised, they never existed

The fact that business and industry had to adjust to the new situation is unsurprising
Do you understand what non tariff barriers are?

Do you understand what the benefits of the single market are?


Our relationship with the EU is very important with Trump becoming president.

43% of UKs trade is with the EU
14% of UKs trade is with the USA

As trade with USA becomes more difficult, reducing barriers with the worlds largest single market on our doorstep becomes ever more important…..so it is going to be helpful to brexit supporters to begin to understand why leaving created permanent damage to the U.K.
 
Tgey
The U.K. chose to leave the Single Market.

The U.K. chose to lose the benefits of frictionless trade.

No punishment was involved.


vote leave promised benefits, none of them have materialised, they never existed


Do you understand what non tariff barriers are?

Do you understand what the benefits of the single market are?


Our relationship with the EU is very important with Trump becoming president.

43% of UKs trade is with the EU
14% of UKs trade is with the USA

As trade with USA becomes more difficult, reducing barriers with the worlds largest single market on our doorstep becomes ever more important…..so it is going to be helpful to brexit supporters to begin to understand why leaving created permanent damage to the U.K.
Screwed us over...

JLR,
Rolls Royce,
Bentley
Transit production...

Just in one sector...
 
If “screwing us over” is shorthand for acting in the best interests of those remaining in the EU and not just doing our bidding as we left then we were “screwed over”. Not sure why anyone would have expected anything different as we (collectively) chose to leave.

Bitching on about it serves no purpose. We need to move forward and make the best of the decision even if it wasn’t reached based on sound financial logic.
 
...........
The original Hamas charter (1988) defines the struggle to be against the Jews and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic Palestinian state in all of former mandatory Palestine and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel. This unambiguously evidences genocidal intent.
Extremely ambiguous. It is drum beating in response to the actions of Israel and their repeated rejection of proposed solutions so far.
Hamas itself was supported/created by Israel as a divisive alternative to Fatah and others. https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
This is essential reading: https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/frequently-asked-questions-on-israel-palestine/
We are going to have to unpick whatever Trump and Netanyahu come up with and some fact checking could be useful.
Funny that there are those who reject links and fact seeking - I guess facts get in the way of conspiracy theories and idly held prejudices!
 
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Not true

I cam provide the evidence that proves it, but this thread is about the USA election
Indeed. Please can you let Jacob know as he is still on his anti Israeli / anti semitic link laden rant 🤣

PS I agree with your post I761. Our trade position has been weakened a lot and this holds back British profitability and diminishes the tax pool from which to pay for public services.
 
Chris Riddell

Putin Trump.jpg
 
If “screwing us over” is shorthand for acting in the best interests of those remaining in the EU and not just doing our bidding as we left then we were “screwed over”. Not sure why anyone would have expected anything different as we (collectively) chose to leave.

Bitching on about it serves no purpose. We need to move forward and make the best of the decision even if it wasn’t reached based on sound financial logic.
Prior to Brexit, thus the silent working majority were fed up with the Germans grabbing the manufacturing, the french the utilities and the Spanish the banks and fish!!
 
No. the UK voted to leave the EU and the EU did all they could to slow down the inevitable break up of the union by punishing the UK. At the time of the vote we were told that if we voted out we could expect a period of economic instability. It seems to me that the people accepted that in favour of the benefits of leaving.
The fact that business and industry had to adjust to the new situation is unsurprising.
I voluntarily left my local gym and stopped paying the membership fee, and they did all they could to slow down the inevitable break up of their business by punishing me. They stopped allowing me to use their kit. If I turn up now they treat me like some third person, and expect me to pay for one-off access. Disgusting.
 
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Prior to Brexit, thus the silent working majority were fed up with the Germans grabbing the manufacturing, the french the utilities and the Spanish the banks and fish!!
I'm not following your logic.

It was open to UK companies to buy German manufacturers (since the 1980's the UK under both Conservative and Labour governments has favoured service industries rather than manufacturing), we didn't have to put our utility companies up for sale and the UK "embraced" foreign ownership of high street banks to stimulate competition. As members we weren't "done to" by the EU at all - despite what some think we were even allowed whatever shape of bananas we wanted!
 
Not taking sides here but reading Jacob's posts about the situation in Israel, it seems to me that he is against the over the top retaliation to the Hamas attack, as a decent human being. I'm not getting any ant Semitic vibes from them at all.
Just an observation!
So someone said:
A bit of the history here. Mostly about Israel and the awful similarities with Nazi Germany.

The Working Definition of Antisemitism includes this as a contemporary example of antisemitism
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

Just an observation.
 
So someone said:


The Working Definition of Antisemitism includes this as a contemporary example of antisemitism


Just an observation.
Actually it was just "a" working definition..etc. and now thoroughly deprecated from all quarters, including the chap who composed it.
It was a draft discussion document and not the finished item. There's a clue in the word "working".
Sorry to spoil a good story again, with facts and informed opinions, but you can read all about it here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_definition_of_antisemitism

PS The comparison came from Omer Bartov, a highly respected Israeli Jewish historian.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel-gaza-historian-omer-bartov
 
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Actually it was just "a" working definition..etc. and now thoroughly deprecated from all quarters, including the chap who composed it.
It was a draft discussion document and not the finished item. There's a clue in the word "working".
Sorry to spoil a good story again, with facts and informed opinions, but you can read all about it here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_definition_of_antisemitism

PS The comparison came from Omer Bartov, a highly respected Israeli Jewish historian.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel-gaza-historian-omer-bartov

Marcus writes that it was a "working definition" in two senses: a working guide to identifying antisemitism in practice, and a work-in-progress as opposed to a final statement
Where in that article does it say it's been deprecated? Seems to have been adopted pretty widely.
 
Read it.

and rejected pretty widely.
I did, have you?

The working definition of antisemitism, also called the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism or IHRA definition, is a non-legally binding statement on what antisemitism is
The definition was developed during 2003–04 and first published on 28 January 2005 on the website of the European Union agency, the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC).
In 2008, the European Forum on Antisemitism commissioned translations of the Working Definition into each of the 33 languages used by the OSCE states.
In 2010, Stern wrote that "In the last five years, the definition has been increasingly used, because it provides a workable, non-ideological approach to task of identifying antisemitism."[2] The definition was used by monitoring agencies and law enforcement officials in some European countries.
For example, in Lithuania, it was referred to in a successful criminal case against an editor of a right-wing newspaper in 2005.
In 2006, the All-Party Parliamentary Inquiry into Antisemitism recommended that the UK adopt the definition and that it be promoted by the Government and law enforcement agencies.
According to Ken Marcus, the United States Commission on Civil Rights, after investigating campus antisemitism, adopted the definition, to help universities identify the lines between hateful and non-hateful incidents.
On 1 May 2024, amidst the ongoing 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses, the Antisemitism Awareness Act, which mandates the use of the IHRA definition by the Department of Education, was passed in the House by a margin of 320 to 91.
On 26 May 2016, IHRA adopted a non-legally binding working definition of antisemitism.[70][78] The IHRA adoption took place following the efforts of Mark Weitzman of the Simon Wiesenthal Center,[79][80] at the Bucharest plenary meeting of the IHRA on 30 May 2016, where its 31 member countries voted to adopt it.[81] Weitzman later told a workshop that the definition was copied from the EUMC version as there was "not enough time to invent a new one".[82] The decision to adopt the text was based on consensus among IHRA's 31 member countries
The IHRA definition has been adopted for internal use by a number of government and political institutions. By 2018, according to Lerman, the IHRA definition had been formally adopted by 6 of the 31 governments whose countries are members of IHRA
On 11 December 2019, President Donald Trump signed an executive order on combatting antisemitism. The order specifies that agencies responsible for enforcement of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 must take into consideration the working definition of antisemitism, as well as the IHRA list of Contemporary Examples of Anti-Semitism, "to the extent that any examples might be useful as evidence of discriminatory intent", when investigating complaints, expanding Title VI to protect against discrimination based on antisemitism.
In March 2016, the UK government published a short article on defining antisemitism, authored by Eric Pickles, then Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, which stated "for those seeking a definition of antisemitism, the UK's College of Policing does include a working definition of antisemitism [i.e. the EUMC working definition] in their guidance to police forces in the UK", which was then quoted in full in the article
Plus many more.
The FRA (Fundamental Rights Agency) might not like it and there is some criticism of it but it seems pretty widely used.

Can you point out where it's rejected?
 
Please stick to the topic. Last warning.
 
Straight from the Guardian reader's handbook I see!
Sorry but I just don't subscribe to left wing total nonsense...if that upsets people enough to put me on ignore it says far more about them than me.
In all the years I've been visiting internet forums I've never once put anyone on ignore no matter how obnoxious they came across in their posts toward me nor have I ever reported a post made by someone.

It says an awful lot about their character or should I say lack of it that they have to put someone on ignore because they disagree with other party's perspectives.
If they feel hurt enough to put someone on ignore simply for disagreeing then might I suggest that they refrain from involving themselves in subjects like politics as it usually means there is likely to be a conflict of opinions and we wouldn't want any of them to feel hurt now would we?


No matter what I type here - remember one thing as you read it through - that it will all be written politely. Dispassionately and factually. But above all, politely. And in my view - that's more than can be said for your postings.

The issue is this, Tony - if people have put you on ignore it isn't because they disagree with you - far from it, people are generally not like that - so there must be more going on - if indeed people have put you on ignore as you suspect. Like you, I have never ever in my many years of discussing topics with people of all views on forums put anyone on ignore. I confess to having considered that on only a single individual! But I haven't. I choose not to. Partly because like I mentioned somewhere before - you may or may not have read or remember - I choose to keep myself informed from all sources - no matter how awful, disgusting, untruthful and deliberately misleading they are. I choose not to dwell in an echo chamber.

So, what is the issue you may be asking yourself? Quite simply it is that you are openly aggressive and insulting, on several levels, and refuse to take on board the true facts when they are presented to you in an evidenced fashion, instead apparently preferring to continue to propagate known lies. ( <- Written politely, as promised - I have not insulted you, this is an evidenced observation.)

Look at your post above. Calling people "obnoxious" and calling their character into question if they have chosen to dissociate with you (and you must know if they have you on ignore, that they can't read or respond to what you are saying about them - so why even do that?). Not cool, bro. You are also openly hostile, demeaning and insulting about "the left" (as some kind of homogenous entity - as if that is even a thing - it is reminiscent of Liz Truss's attitude when you say those things - and you have seen how she comes across when she says those things). You are also hostile, demeaning and insulting about particular people that you clearly have some kind of (anger?) issue with, calling them "stupid", etc,,, (when quite clearly the individuals quoted are far from being "stupid" in any objective sense).

On the matter of spreading lies -> In a recent post you claimed (again) that there was no such thing as the £22bn black hole - because "everyone knew it existed". I've tackled this point with you myself, probably on more than one occasion. Whether you are doing so intentionally or not, what you wrote is tantamount to a lie. Amongst the other evidence, which I'm sure I've provided before, which if you've read, you've chosen to disregard - the head of the OBR is on Public Record - this time quoted from the recent Treasury Select Committee, (as well as writing an official letter about the situation which I'm sure I've previously linked to) - spending commitments (projected overspend of allowable budget) within the previous government - and I quote "were not disclosed to us [the OBR], as part of our usual Budget preparations [March Budget], which under the Law and under the Act, they [Tories] should have done".

The truth is really simple - it has been confirmed by the Head of the OBR that unbudgeted, unfunded spending commitments were deliberately hidden from the OBR (and therefore hidden form the public, and from the opposition) by the previous government. The previous government acted outside of the Law. Ergo, the black hole is proven to exist and it is proven that it was not foreseeable by a new govt, because the truth was unlawfully hidden from scrutiny.

So if anyone has indeed put you on ignore it is probably because you can be unpleasant to engage in discussion with and/or refuse to look facts in the face when provided, which probably makes it difficult for people to want to interact with you - particularly when you don't acknowledge reality and instead continue to subscribe to, and actively push, some mistruth or other.

That's all I have, matey - take it or leave it. Up to you. I trust that I didn't come across as obnoxious to you.
 
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