Ungluing 1930s doors

[alex robinson]

I would like to replace my bright orange modern pine internal doors with something a bit nicer and have come across some lovely 1930s doors which will fit some of the frames. We have an understairs cupboard and loo which have much narrower doorways however. I don't want to just cut the edges of the doors back however as I think the changes to the proportions would make them look silly.

Does anybody here have experience of ungluing doors like this so as to cut them down, but keep the shape the same? I know disassembling items built with hide glue is meant to be possible using alcohol, but more modern adhesives or hidden wedged tenons are almost impossible to undo. What are my chances, or should I just wait for a smaller one to come up? Thanks!

 

[toolsntat]

You could try cramping it up tightly and seeing if you get any movement.
If the door is too wide with enough to spare on the cross rails, cutting through the ends of them and reinstating tenons is doable.
Maybe it's dowelled together in which case the previous cut and shut method with reinstating dowels could be a godsend.
Cheers, Andy

 

[Stuart Moffat]

The usual approach to loosening animal glue is heat. I have an iron which I use to remove thin stuff, e.g. veneers that have delaminated to the point of being easier to remove and then re glue. I’ve had success ungluing chair legs using steam from a wallpaper stripper with a pointy attachment on the end of a pipe. but if there is a dowel through the mortise and tenons as toolsntat rightly points out you have to deal with that. Drilling them out is the easiest cheat. But if someone has repairs them since 1930 with a PVA glue bottle heat won’t help a lot. (I’ve twice seen Will on the repair shop with a PVA glue bottle when I wouldn’t have dreamed of doing that on the items he was fixing).

 

[rogxwhit]

What's the door design - stiles, rails, muntins, panels? And what width reduction is involved?

 

[Jacob]

Basically no chance. I'd just trim them or make new.

 

[alex robinson]

They are 3 panel, and I want to loose 8 - 10 cm width from 2 of them, and one needs about 15cm off the height as well. Maybe there is enough to cut them and remake the tenons.

 

[rogxwhit]

8 - 10 cm width

Millimetres please!!! Building trades don't use cm - mm & m only!

 

[rogxwhit]

Maybe there is enough to cut them and remake the tenons.

Yes it seems that there is. Are the existing tenons through ones, and wedged?

 

[Ttrees]

PVA is easy to undo with some heat or steam.... well for guitar fretboard extensions it is, never tried with a door though.
Two holes one for the football needle through the wedges, and the other for moisture to escape.
A clothes iron with damp rag for the tenon would likely help too, with two or three layers of a damp rag under.
Some sawhorses for wriggling the thing might help too.

Good luck
Tom

 

[MikeK]

Millimetres please!!! Building trades don't use cm - mm & m only!

Amen! It is simply not possible to convert any measurement in centimeters to millimeters despite advances in computing power. The current sophistication of mathematics just does not exist yet. Perhaps when the theoretical mathematics community solves the Birch and Swinnerton-Dyer conjecture it can focus on the centimeter to millimeter conversion.

 

[toolsntat]

Basically no chance. I'd just trim them or make new.

You sound pretty certain there Jacob.
Do you understand how ridiculous a well proportioned door looks with 40-50mm taken off the stiles? Let alone the damage incurred to the joints.?
Cheers, Andy

 

[rogxwhit]

It leads to possible confusion having three units of length. Having just two is a discipline that makes life simpler - communication is streamlined with no need for head-scratching. It's also an established convention that has a real-world effectiveness. Cm are for dressmakers!

(I speak as one who grew up in an age where we had to grapple not just with 32nds & 64ths of an inch, but often a measurement in 64ths that was 'full' or 'bare'.)

 

[Jacob]

You sound pretty certain there Jacob.
Do you understand how ridiculous a well proportioned door looks with 40-50mm taken off the stiles? Let alone the damage incurred to the joints.?
Cheers, Andy

Oop's yes he's talking centimetres! Not possible to trim.
Have a go at separating them perhaps but be prepared to scrap them and put it down to experience!

 

[rogxwhit]

centimetres

Don't use that word!!!

 

[alex robinson]

Yes it seems that there is. Are the existing tenons through ones, and wedged?

Unfortunately I don't know yet. I am trying to decide if I should bid on them.

Oop's yes he's talking centimetres! Not possible to trim.
Have a go at separating them perhaps but be prepared to scrap them and put it down to experience!

I thought you were being a bit brutal - seems this is the perfect demonstration of why never to use cm! I will consider this a lesson!

 

[thetyreman]

not worth modifying it, get a door that fits better, I have cut them up but for different reasons, it was to re-use the good quality douglas fir/pine from them and was surprised at how thin the panels were only about 1/4" thick! certainly not as well made as I originally thought, they also had machine cut mortise and tenon joints, and the joints go quite close to the edges, meaning there wasn't that much you could cut off before seeing the joints come through.

 

[rogxwhit]

Unfortunately I don't know yet. I am trying to decide if I should bid on them.

I don't see it as an issue, I was just curious.

It's as well to outline a strategy for the whole process, though. Exactly how to do it depends on the skills and equipment available. If the doors easily come apart, you're laughing. Otherwise - if you saw through all the rails down one side, you then have to make new tenons on the ends of those rails whilst they're still captive in the opposite rail. A bit awkward in work handling.

Dowels? Dominos? You can plug any original mortices if necessary, but any tenon remains might serve that function. Any mouldings on the frame to be scribed / mitred?

 

[MikeK]

Don't use that word!!!

Somewhere a horse is whinnying.

 

[Argus]

Unfortunately I don't know yet. I am trying to decide if I should bid on them.

Have you considered making (or having made) your own doors to the pattern of the ones that you are thinking of buying?

That way they'll fit.
...... besides, existing door-apertures in older houses rarely have parallel sides or right-angles in corners.

 

[rogxwhit]

"Somewhere a horse is whinnying."

Nnneeeeeiiiigggghhhhh!