Tuffsaw bandsaw blades a bit long.

[Random Orbital Bob]

Is the blade absolutely spanking brand new ie really sharp? I find that resawing very thick stock really highlights any bluntness in a blade.

It is worth calling Ian though. If for some reason his blades are long he'll do something about it. His service is flawless in my experience.

 

[Glynne]

Thanks Bob.
Yes it was a new blade but even at full tension on the saw you could easily deflect the blade onto the frame, none of this 1/4" movement with a firm fore finger. The supplied Record blade (which isn't up to much) tensions OK but will only rip straight on thinish stock so I'll take that off and measure it before giving Ian a shout.
A bit disappointing really as I bought the BS350 specifically to resaw more stock and cut some thickish veneers but I'll get it sorted eventually.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

One more thing occurs to me. That blade is new you say, when did you buy it and have you measured its length against the ones you're not having any trouble tensioning (to see if that one is clearly different)? It's a bit odd isn't it, there almost seems to be a trend emerging here. I would definitely talk it through with Ian. I mean it sounds like he's welded a batch too long (including those BS400 ones) but that scenario is just so totally unlikely given what I know of the man. The other possibility is that Record Power's Chaiwanese factory have set up a machine tool wrongly and they're producing a batch of incorrectly specified machines. That also is unlikely given the problem is happening to both BS400 and 350 users and few of their components are shared due to the scale differences. Its almost like someone's measuring equipment has gone out of calibration so it keeps introducing a 15mm or so error...also highly unlikely??

If it were me I'd be on the phone to Ian...there's nothing the bloke doesn't know about bandsaws and blades.

Will you report back when you get more light on the subject as this is a bit of a head scratcher?
Thanks mate

 

[Glynne]

Will do.
I'll have a play with all the blades I have, 3 from Ian and the supplied Record one and check the sizes before giving Ian a call. I've always been pleased with Tuffsaws so I'm more interested in getting my saw set up properly rather than complaining so if I need a new blade I'll get Ian to check the size before sending it on.
Glynne

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Is the saw new as well then Glynne?

 

[Baldhead]

When I measured my blade from Ian against the Record blade, the Record blade is a snug fit inside Ians blade but I couldn't get Ians blade to fit around the Record blade, Ians blade is slightly longer, but that's comparing the two, I haven't physically measured either blade, the Record blade maybe shorter than specified?

As Steve has posted, forget the blade tension indicator, it's a bit of a gimmick as it can be adjusted up or down to make it correspond with the size of blade that is fitted, this I believe is how Record set the indictor at the factory.

Assuming the blade tensioning is the same on the BS350 as it is on the BS400, I measured the spring with the tension completely off, with the Record blade fitted and with Ians blade fitted, I cannot remember the figures but there are only a few mm difference in the spring length, nothing to be unduly concerned with, although Ians did require more tension, that said the blades were different sizes.

TBH I'm more than happy with Ians blade, I was originally going to ask him to shorten it, but I'm not going to bother now, it cuts cleanly and straight which is exactly what I want.
I really think, in case anyhow, that the machine just needs setting up to recieve Ians blades.

HTH

Baldhead

 

[Glynne]

Thanks for the replies guys.
Bob - the bandsaw is just under 2 years old.
Baldhead - I haven't measured the Record blade but the lack of tension on the Tuffsaws one was really apparent and I don't think any amount of tuning was going to help. I've removed the flimsy tensioning guide as it actually reduces the amount of tension you could apply. I'll have another go tomorrow and start from complete scratch but the fact that the blade appears to be 15mm oversize seems strange unless they are deliberately manufactured that way.
I'm sure it can be sorted and that's all I'm about so I'll have a good play and see where that takes me but I'll let people know as sometimes in these situations you think "It's just me" when often it's not.
Glynne

 

[Glynne]

Right. I went down to the workshop this morning and took off the supplied Record blade and measured it - exactly the same length as the Tuffsaws one (2645)! So I have 2 blades exactly the same length and can tension the narrower one but not the 3/4" one.
As is promised I decided to refit the Tuffsaws one and start from scratch so all guides moved completely out of the way and I took the very unusual step of actually reading the manual firstly. What I hadn't previously noticed is that the instructions tell you that before you install the new blade, you should raise the top wheel (with the tensioning lever) and turn the tensioning knob to the setting for your new width of blade. You then lower the top wheel, fit the new blade and re-tension, adjusting as necessary.
The blade is a lot more taut than it was but I'm still not convinced it is tight enough for resawing. I have no idea why this makes a difference but it does and I must have left a higher setting when I moved to the Record blade.
I have added more tension with the knob but to do that I have to remove the indicator lever as it slips off the pin at the bottom of the tensioning mechanism and catches.
I still think I will drop Ian a line and ask about the length of blades against the machine specification as it seems strange but there could be a manufacturing reason for it.
Glynne

 

[woodpig]

Just be sure you can actually fit the shortened blade as Ian won't be able to lengthen it again if its too short!

 

[jumps]

Right. I went down to the workshop this morning and took off the supplied Record blade and measured it - exactly the same length as the Tuffsaws one (2645)! So I have 2 blades exactly the same length and can tension the narrower one but not the 3/4" one.
As is promised I decided to refit the Tuffsaws one and start from scratch so all guides moved completely out of the way and I took the very unusual step of actually reading the manual firstly. What I hadn't previously noticed is that the instructions tell you that before you install the new blade, you should raise the top wheel (with the tensioning lever) and turn the tensioning knob to the setting for your new width of blade. You then lower the top wheel, fit the new blade and re-tension, adjusting as necessary.
The blade is a lot more taut than it was but I'm still not convinced it is tight enough for resawing. I have no idea why this makes a difference but it does and I must have left a higher setting when I moved to the Record blade.
I have added more tension with the knob but to do that I have to remove the indicator lever as it slips off the pin at the bottom of the tensioning mechanism and catches.
I still think I will drop Ian a line and ask about the length of blades against the machine specification as it seems strange but there could be a manufacturing reason for it.
Glynne

the really strange thing to me reading this is that Ian would provide a blade for a BS350 at anything other than 2630mm.

I could understand a used, thinner, blade having stretched to the length indicated
also that you could adequately tension a thinner blade that overlength
and that you can't tension a 3/4" blade properly that's that overlength - it's at the limit of the machines spec to be able to tension properly anyway!

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Right. I went down to the workshop this morning and took off the supplied Record blade and measured it - exactly the same length as the Tuffsaws one (2645)! So I have 2 blades exactly the same length and can tension the narrower one but not the 3/4" one.Glynne

That right there may be the reason. This is new information...you're saying you can tension a narrower blade but not a 3/4". You've not said what width the narrower one is. It sounds like you're simply at the limit of the saw. The majority of bandsaws struggle to tension the blade width specified by the manufacturer as the max width. My experience is typically 1/4" less than published max is their "real max".

Was Ian's blade the 3/4" or was that the Record blade?

Another feature of Ian's blades (sabrecut at least) is they're thinner than normal blades. One reason is it means many less expensive bandsaws can tension at their max setting and also the thinner kerf means they clear waste more easily and keep cutting straight as a consequence. So which was which in your scenario?

 

[Glynne]

Sorry Bob I thought it mentioned that the Record blade is 3/8".
I've had another little play today and I can get a lot more tension by slacking off the "quick tension" lever, tightening the normal tension knob and then cranking the lever back to tension the blade which is more in line with the instructions. I don't know why this works but it does so I'm somewhere closer to be where I want to be.
The blade from Ian is a 3/4" 3/4 vari tooth but it the sabre cut whereas the Record one is a 3 tpi but I'll ask the question of Ian and see what he thinks and if he can suggest a better blade.
Glynne

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Its odd isn't it...that slacken off the quick tension lever routine making it tension better. I don't understand that either but I'll try that with my 400 on next blade change too. With Ian's blades he has different thicknesses depending on the blade. I know he as a regular thickness and also a "tougher" level which is about 10thou thicker and that will be more difficult to tension. If that 3/4" is basically not specially thinner then my guess is it's just beyond the boundary of the saw to tension it (based on the previous discussion about manufacturers being over zealous in their brochures).

A chat with Ian should reveal if he has a thinner gauge blade that the saw would be able to tension even at 3/4". The other thing though is simply to go to 5/8 because there is precious little that cant do that a 3/4 can.

Anyway, do keep this thread updated wont you as this is helpful to me and other BS users for sure. Best of luck.

 

[woodpig]

I think the bottom line is that you really need to get to know your own bandsaw. Things aren't always as simple as they appear and the instruction manuals (even when folks do read them!) may not be as good as they could be. As Bob says this thread could come in handy for folks with the same saw so keep us updated.

 

[paulm]

Can't believe this thread has got to five pages and no one involved has spoken to Ian at Tuffsaws yet, or have I missed that !!! :lol:

Cheers, Paul

 

[Glynne]

No you haven't missed it, it is on my "To Do' list.
I'll post the outcome.

 

[Glynne]

Ive just emailed Ian now to ask the question about blade lengths and referenced this post so he knows it's just not me and which should let him know that people do value his blades.
Just to add to the confusion, I went back to my original Tuffsaws invoice for my blades and they are shown as being 2630mm when the actual length is 2645mm - some 15mm longer. Now I'm no metallurgist but I doubt that my bandsaw could permanently stretch a 3/4'' blade by 15mm so I'm interested to hear the answer which may be some manufacturing allowance?
I'll let you know idc.
Glynne

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Good man Glynne. Ian has an account on here by the way. Now that doesn't necessarily mean he has read this thread because he is very busy right now but he does comment from time to time. I happen to know he's busy because I ordered 3 off 5/8" sabrecuts last week which arrived today. I order by e mail usually and you can tell how busy Ian is by how long it takes him to respond. I suspect his business is growing because his product and service are top notch.

 

[jumps]

Just to add to the confusion, I went back to my original Tuffsaws invoice for my blades and they are shown as being 2630mm when the actual length is 2645mm - some 15mm longer. Now I'm no metallurgist but I doubt that my bandsaw could permanently stretch a 3/4'' blade by 15mm so I'm interested to hear the answer which may be some manufacturing allowance?

on the one hand it reduces the overall potential for confusion!

as already posted you will probably get away with being able to acceptably tension a slightly overlength narrow blade - but not the wider one.

as you can't tension it I can't see how you will have stretched the new blade at all!

whilst 15mm is a very small percentage error in a 2630mm blade I would be surprised if the manufacturing tolerance is that high - we will find out!

I'm still slightly focused on you having 2 nominal 2630 blades that measure exactly the same 2645mm - I don't like coincidences :idea:

 

[Glynne]

I emailed Ian and 11:58 yesteday lunchtime and he got back to me at 16:15!
The bottom line is that the blade should be as per the manufacturers specification i.e. 2630mm and so if it is longer (assuming I can measure), then whilst he makes every effort to be as accurate as possible, he could have made an error being human like the rest of us.

"I try my best to make sure that every blade that goes out is perfect but I occasionally slip up and the odd one or two will get past me that's not 100% correct - it is a very, very small percentage that this happens to and it sounds like the 3/4" blade might have been made oversize - blade lengths will vary because of the welding process and tooth matching but I try to keep the variation as close to the recommended size as possible".

I thought that was a really refreshing reply rather than the frequent, you as the customer must have done something wrong.
Ian suggested I return the blade so he can check it and he will re-weld it to the correct length if needed. I've told him I'm happy to do that (I think if was me I'd want to check it too) but having used the blade previously on thinner stock, I would be taking liberties in putting him to that trouble and so I've asked him if he still wants it back to have a look at and to recommend a blade specifically for re-sawing.

To answer jumps comment, yes it is spooky as to why the narrower Record blade is over length by exactly the same amount - but I just know I'll get nowhere if I try the same type of query with Record so I'm not even going to bother!

Just as a post script, I should mention the huge personal risk I went to in measuring the blade. I wasn't convinced as to the accuracy of moving the blade across the floor and the measuring the travel or in using a piece of string due to the possibility of stretching. So I used a very expensive 1500mm seamstress's tape measure that doesn't stretch and is soft enough to fold around the blade. If the said owner of the tape measure ever finds out, you will be reading my obituary!
Glynne