Tuffsaw bandsaw blades a bit long.

[Steve Maskery]

Do not touch those bolts!!!!!!

They control the tracking of the bottom wheel and nothing you have said suggests that that is a problem. They are factory set and should not be altered unless absolutely necessary. Plus, making the shaft more central will make your problem worse, not better. And if you alter the East-West pair your blade will just be shrugged off.

I repeat, don't touch those bolts.

S

 

[Jmac80]

Ok will not touch. Thanks :lol:

 

[Jmac80]

Hi OLD
I did think about that.
There is a square spacer in there from factory, it must be 5mm or so thick. If there was another it would make the difference I think.

 

[Baldhead]

Hello
Could fellow bs400 owners do me a small favor please and compare your machine to my photos.

where about is the yellow gauge 2 x screw holes positioned on yours, A bottom or B top or somewhere else?

And how about the screw above the spring, here is 2 pics of mine.

edit: very bottom pic should read tension ON.. sigh (small few mm gap under the screw)

I know the gauge is to be mostly ignored but i'm just interested to see.
Ian got back to me today and is happy to cut a bit of the length, So i shall do that because the tension spring is fully compressed with the tuffsaw blades and it just doesn't feel good lol.

thanks all

James I've checked my saw today, the position of the yellow gauge screws is at the bottom (picture A)
I didnt understand your problem until I looked the arrangement of the spring, I thought once the tension was released with the cam lever then the spring would not be compressed, but I was wrong #-o
I've emailed Ian and asked if he can shorten my two blades I bought.
Can I just point out though, that the blades I've had from Ian have been excellent, and I got exactly what I asked for so this is not Ians fault.

Baldhead

 

[Jmac80]

thanks baldhead
the tension is ON in both pictures with the yellow gauge. i just unscrewed the gauge holder and slipped it down.
it seems our saws are very similar,maybe from the same factory run. when did you get it?

 

[Giff]

I don't know this model but is there any adjustment in the wheels ? Perhaps pre-set differently to the blueprint ?

 

[woodpig]

My old BS300 tensioning guide was a complete joke and you took pretty much no stock of its position whatsoever.

That's strange because the gauge on my BS300E seems pretty much spot on. Albeit the blades seem a bit short! I still have the original Record blade somewhere, I'll have to check it against the others.

 

[Baldhead]

thanks baldhead
the tension is ON in both pictures with the yellow gauge. i just unscrewed the gauge holder and slipped it down.
it seems our saws are very similar,maybe from the same factory run. when did you get it?

I ordered mine late July, delivered in August.
As the gauge is adjustable I assume they tension the blade at the factory and adjust the blade gauge to suit?

Baldhead

 

[Jmac80]

thanks baldhead
the tension is ON in both pictures with the yellow gauge. i just unscrewed the gauge holder and slipped it down.
it seems our saws are very similar,maybe from the same factory run. when did you get it?

I ordered mine late July, delivered in August.
As the gauge is adjustable I assume they tension the blade at the factory and adjust the blade gauge to suit?

Baldhead

i'd imagine so.
Yours and my BS400 both seem to need way more tension than other bs400 owners. (both our gauge screws are right to bottom.
As per pics of random orbital bob's bandsaw in his review and PACS there gauge is near the top of the scews, so their machine are obviously set up different or firmer spring .. something.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I'd forget about the gauge altogether, if it is that problematic.
In any case, a standard blade and a thin-kerf blade will need different tension, even if they are the same width.
Just tension it until it sounds and feels right and away you go.
Also remember that the limiting factor on the size of blade you can install is usually the width of the wheel, it is the ability of the machine to tension the blade. So even though the wheel may have a nominal size of 25mm, and you could, in theory, install a 25mm blade, the machine itself may well not have the strength to tension it.
The good news is that you can rip accurately very successfully with a 1/2" blade and almost any bandsaw can tension that properly.
S

 

[Baldhead]

I'd forget about the gauge altogether, if it is that problematic.
In any case, a standard blade and a thin-kerf blade will need different tension, even if they are the same width.
Just tension it until it sounds and feels right and away you go.
Also remember that the limiting factor on the size of blade you can install is usually the width of the wheel, it is the ability of the machine to tension the blade. So even though the wheel may have a nominal size of 25mm, and you could, in theory, install a 25mm blade, the machine itself may well not have the strength to tension it.
The good news is that you can rip accurately very successfully with a 1/2" blade and almost any bandsaw can tension that properly.
S

Hi Steve
In my case I'm not bothered about the gauge (it's adjustable anyhow so you can 'make it fit' so to speak) it's the fact that when I trnsion the blade correctly the spring is almost fully compressed, which can't be doing it any good? At first I didn't see this as a problem because I always detension the blade with cam lever when it's not in use but this doesn't relieve the tension on the spring.
I've just had a thought and your probably the right person to ask for advice, if Record are using a slightly longer spring in their later models ie mine and James' than that would account for the spring being fully compressed, is that right?
Sorry if I sound stupid but all I know about bandsaws is what I've seen on your DVD's.
Cheers
Stew

 

[CHJ]

I don't know this model but is there any adjustment in the wheels ? Perhaps pre-set differently to the blueprint ?

I don't know the construction details of the bandsaw but as Giff says is there any adjustment of the upper wheel spindle centre/tension release mechanism and the lower end of the spring housing?

One machine I fitted a new tensioning threaded rod in for someone some years ago, (usual stripped thread/nut problem) there was considerable leeway in the setting between these two, by positioning of nuts/locknuts, finally settling on a position that gave a reasonable spring compression but just stopped short of the top wheel fouling the upper case when fully raised.

 

[Jmac80]

I don't know this model but is there any adjustment in the wheels ? Perhaps pre-set differently to the blueprint ?

I don't know the construction details of the bandsaw but as Giff says is there any adjustment of the upper wheel spindle centre/tension release mechanism and the lower end of the spring housing?

One machine I fitted a new tensioning threaded rod in for someone some years ago, (usual stripped thread/nut problem) there was considerable leeway in the setting between these two, by positioning of nuts/locknuts, finally settling on a position that gave a reasonable spring compression but just stopped short of the top wheel fouling the upper case when fully raised.

I shall take a few pics of the mechanism and post here

 

[Steve Maskery]

all I know about bandsaws is what I've seen on your DVD's.

That makes two of us.

I think I'd need to see the machine before I could offer any more than has been said already.

I do think you woud be hard-pressed to over-compress a coil spring. Over-extending it would cause much more damage much more easily.
I think you have some good ideas above that are easy to try out and I shall be as interested as anyone to read about how they turned out.
Good luck
Steve

 

[Baldhead]

I think I have the answer.

If you look at pictures 3 and 4 on one of James' posts you can see a bolt which allows some adjustment to the space where the spring is located. This bolt acts as a stop for the block which the top wheel is mounted on, the block sits ontop of the spring, if you slacken this bolt you will effectively increase the area in which the spring is located, therefore the spring will be less compressed, I'm useless at explaining things, I will try and draw it sometime when I haven't had any alcohol (it is New Years Eve after all)

It has nothing to do with Ians blades, or indeed their length, the machine is not set up for Ians blades.

Thanks go to Chas, your last post got me thinking, I only hope I'm right otherwise I'm going to look a right plonker (and I've done that several times in the past).

Enough, back to the merriment, have a super new year guys.

Take care

Baldhead

 

[Jmac80]

hehe look forward to your sketches, best time to draw them will be 3am this morning :lol:
Give us a laugh :mrgreen:
Like you say it certainly is not Ians blades as they are of the highest quality precision. And he is also good enough to offer to shorten them for free so they would fit the machine better. Nice one thanks Ian =D>
Have a good new year :ho2

 

[Baldhead]

Heres a couple of pictures which show the arrangement of the blade tensioning device, the exploded diagram is from the Record handbook (hope I'm not breaking any copyright laws) the other picture is from Bobs (Random Orbital Bobs) review.
It looks like the only reason for the spring is to keep the handwheel under tension to stop it rotating when the saws in use, as the handwheel is on the underside and not the top as it is on some machines.
The distance the spring can travel looks like it can be adjusted by either tightening or slackening the small bolt (No 83) which will increase or decrease the space between the bottom of the frame and the block on which the wheel is mounted.
As clear as mud?
HTH
Baldhead

 

[Jmac80]

i think i follow you, are you going to try it? if so take some before and after pics of the screw positions

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Chaps...Stew has just pm'd me on this...I had not read the thread for a while.

In response to the tensioning lever screws....mine are pretty much in the middle in fact. Though it now seems you've moved on from that in your thinking. Stew...you asked me to measure the length of my spring (ooh err phnaar phnaar). I'll go do that now...hang on....

right then.....its 75mm in length when compressed sufficiently to operate a 1" ripper blade (from Ian) ie as it was when I got to the saw. Then I untensioned it and wound the hand wheel to loose. Now its 85mm so a 10mm travel between slack and tight for a 1" blade. It wasn't going to take much more tension than that, a little, but then its stated capacity is 1" so I have no expectation it should.

In fact to be honest, as mentioned in my review, many band saws only tension to about 1/4" below the manufacturers claims. Don't forget those dreaded marketing folks get a chance to input to the spec sheets!! I'm saying no more. So when the BS400 was able to take a 1" blade I was overjoyed.

On a practical note though (as Steve M has also stated), I use 1/2" low tpi blades all the time for rough stuff and they're a superb compromise because not only can they cut some pretty thick timber, they can still handle a pretty tight radius

 

[Glynne]

I've been following this with interest although I have a BS350 rather than a BS400.
I've been using Ian's 1/4" & 1/2" blades without any problem but today I needed to start resawing a lot of timber which I've been putting off for a while. I have a 3/4" 3/4 tooth vari blade from Ian so I envisaged no problems (apart from the usual resawing ones). I really struggled to get any tension on the blade and resorted to removing the "gauge" to allow me to tighten further as I found this caught on the mounting screws. Slightly better but the planer/thicknesser is in for some serious work!
I removed the blade and measured it and it comes out at 2645mm (3 measurements 2644, 2645 & 2646) against the manual specification of 2630mm.
Now I don't know too much about the blade manufacturing process but I'm guessing this is the blade under no tension (not that I think the tension would account for 15mm)?
Before I give Ian a shout, is there anything obvious I'm missing? I have Steve's DVD, I have managed to resaw on a previous cheap Chinese bandsaw but, tracking issues apart, this seems to be down to a lack of tension due to a larger blade than the machine needs.
Thanks in advance.
Glynne