Tormek issue

[Glynne]

I inherited a Tormek along with a plethora of accessory over 10 years go.
After using it for a variety of sharpening tasks I have eventually come to the position where I only use it for re-grinding (rather than sharpening) plane blades and chisels.
Without wanting to start a sharpening thread, I use a hollow grind and then sharpen on scary sharp / autosol & MDF.
So with a hollow grind on plane & chisel blades there comes a time when you need to re-grind as the edge and heel wear and it is more difficult to get a reference for sharpening.
Yesterday I set the Tormek up to re-grind my A2 steel chisels but found that it took only took the slightest pressure to stop the wheel. The wheel is worn (about 8" now) but I had flattened it and dressed but it was taking ages just to remove the smallest amount of steel. In the end I gave up and used a conventional grinder with pink wheels - which is a bit scary with expensive chisels.
Has anybody else had this issue and if so did you manage to resolve it and how please?

I think in the absence of a solution, as I only use it for re-grinding, it will have to go "For Sale"!

 

[marcros]

is the wheel slipping or is the motor stalling?

 

[Eric The Viking]

I use a hollow grind and then sharpen on scary sharp / autosol & MDF.

I do the same with a similar, much cheaper "Dakota" wet grinder.

Yesterday I set the Tormek up to re-grind my A2 steel chisels but found that it took only took the slightest pressure to stop the wheel. The wheel is worn (about 8" now) but I had flattened it and dressed but it was taking ages just to remove the smallest amount of steel. In the end I gave up and used a conventional grinder with pink wheels - which is a bit scary with expensive chisels.

I've only got A2 in some plane irons, but those are amenable to Scary Sharp, as long as I do go down through the grits. I've also got some cheap diamond plates, which cut faster, but cheap = irregularly sized diamond grit, so there's always a risk that the surface will get scored. CMT or similar would probably work well. I know several tradespeople who swear by them as fast and good, but they've been too expensive for me up to now.

Regarding the Tormek itself: Check the motor is driving properly and the rubber drive wheel hasn't got slippery for some reason. As the grinding wheel gets smaller, the torque actually increases, as long as it's being driven properly.

It's probably also worth checking that the bearings on the main shaft are still OK. I'm told that early Tormeks used mild steel (which rusts - later ones are SS apparently). My Dakota uses mild steel too, and now I'm careful to remove the wheel after use and dry it horizontally (up on blocks), which lets the shaft dry too. So far the bearings on mine are still good. But it's all a bit of a faff.

I find it useful, but nothing like as much as I once hoped I would, and although I get edges good enough to shave with once in a blue moon, I can't get consistency in the same way I can with Scary Sharp. So it grinds softer material, does the kitchen knives, etc., and regrinds chisels and plane irons when they get nicked, etc.

Sorry - no solace from here, but I'll still keep mine until the wheel is to small to be any more use.

E.

PS: incidentally, I assume you know about dressing the wheel with the block they have - to make it cut faster or slower? It doesn't make as much difference on the Dakota as I hoped it might, but it does make some. Specifically, it will cut faster after being "coarse dressed" it seems to unclog it. It also wastes a lot of grit on the grindstone though!

 

[tomatwark]

Yes check the rubber wheel on the leather side.

That has always been the cause for my Tormek doing this

Mine is now 20 years or so old

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

You need to remove the honing wheel (easy with a big nut) and then gently sand the drive wheel to rough it up with circa 120-150 paper and that added roughness should give the additional traction needed to avoid slippage. It's a common and normal maintenance issue that only needs doing once in a blue moon.

One other problem which it could be but much less likely is that the plastic inner section of the drive wheel has cracked meaning it no longer grips the shaft. That happened to me and I had to replace it. With the modern versions, that part is now zinc so much less likely to split but mines a T7 so still plastic.

So 99% it'll be a maintenance roughing of the drive wheel, if that doesn't work then look closely at the body of the drive wheel for fissures near the shaft

 

[Glynne]

Thanks everyone.
The motor is fine and I replaced the main shaft and bearings some time ago so no problems there.
I have roughened up the drive wheel and also taken the shine off the motor shaft so hopefully that should sort it. As I re-ground all my chisels yesterday I'm not going to try it in anger for the time being.
Cheers.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Just as a reference, when its working properly, you should be able to really lean on it with a ridiculous amount of force but have the wheel continue to turn (just as well really given it's total inability to remove very hardened modern steel alloys like HSS). But that statement should help you to benchmark if you've got it right. If it wont do that then I would seriously examine the plastic for cracks as thats precisely how I diagnosed that fault in mine. I roughed the wheel to within an inch of its life and yet still I couldn't put significant pressure on the stone without it stopping.

 

[Glynne]

Thanks Bob. I didn't check the drive wheel plastic for cracks but is certainly worth knowing.
I remembered seeing the Tormek demonstrated on the New Yankee Workshop years ago and the demonstrator did virtually lean on the wheel, which made me realise there was something definitely amiss with mine. My preference would be to use the Tormek rather the conventional grinder so I won't sell it (just yet).

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

That demonstrator would be a Mr Jeff Farris. He was the sole US importer for Tormek with his own tool company for many years. A very knowledgeable bloke in fact. He defected only a couple of years ago to Robert Sorby after having a bit of a fallout with Tormek due to a change in their upper management team.

If you want to develop your Tormek skills, he has published several high quality productions on Youtube that dig into the how's and wherefore's of particular jig use on the Tormek. Well worth a watch for tips and tricks from the master.

 

[Littleoldman]

Can I ask a question and please don't be offended, but is it driving in the right direction? Mine's pretty old and I can stop it fairly easily if it does stop it starts back turning in the wrong direction.

 

[Glynne]

Not offended at all. It turns in the right direction and once I take the extra pressure off it continues in the right direction.
But your post has got me fascinated as to how yours goes in the other direction?

 

[Brian18741]

I have the Dakota version as well but rarely use it. I was getting better results with diamond plates and then I managed to wear a groove in the stone putting a new bevel on a roughing gouge that I has messed up I with a bench grinder. I've been meaning to get the diamond truing tool to fix the wheel but the Dakota one looks rubbish and the Tormek of everything is over €60 so it's been put on the long finger!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I do understand people having frustration with the Tormek but let me (gently) counter with a little bit of experience of it. I've had mine just over 7 years now and it's one of those tools that needs a bit of effort going in before good results start to come out. There is a bit of technique and a bit of skill to it's successful use and I would advise people to read the considerable and brilliantly written manual as the first pass at uploading the education needed to operate it well. The manual is available as a pdf incidentally as long as you're an owner and have registered as such on the Tormek website. In my view, that manual is THE most comprehensive document written by a tool manufacturer of all time.

Secondly, go on to YT and search for Jeff Farris and watch all of his content (there's not that much) and beyond that there are some Alan Holtham promotional bits n pieces like the drill jig and the new stainless shaft etc (neither of which I've got).

If you really want to get under the covers, sign up to the Tormek forum and you'll not meet a nicer bunch of more helpful folk that will give you chapter and verse on anything related. Jeff Farris started and moderated that forum for a great many years.

That infamous New Yankee Workshop episode that featured Jeff catapulted Tormek sales in the States to the stratosphere (relatively).

But you need to observe several housekeeping activities to maintain a good working Tormek and they are these:

- dress the stone little and often with the stone grader to keep it cutting or you'll get frustrated quickly
- always start each new session with fresh water as the waste clogs the stone, stops it cutting
- when the stone gets grooved (especialy with turning tools it does) re dress it flat with the diamond dresser
- a quick and dirty dressing is possible with a T diamond dresser held on the usb 1mm from the stone
- learn the difference between grinding towards and away from the stone
- practice honing to avoid dubbing freshly sharpened edges, its easy freehand with a little practice

Lastly, don't expect it to do jobs its rubbish at. By which I mean the Tormek is great for fine sharpening an already existing profile ie bringing a fresh edge to a given shape. It's bloody useless at removing lots of metal to create a new profile and that's especially true if the tool is HSS or any exotic alloy that's very hard. For those operations (like grinding a fingernail profile on a brand new HSS bowl gouge) you're better off going fast on a bench grinder or linisher style machine like the Sorby Pro edge.

The only reason I give that last lecture is because in their marketing....surprise surprise....it can do everything, make the tea, clean your car and tow your suitcase to the Bahama's! The reality is it's slow wheel speed coupled with the water make it superb at refined functions and next to useless for rough ones. The wider the surface area of the tool (aka the more metal it's asked to remove) the more it starts complaining.

So stick to it's core competence, train yourself a bit and it works wonders. Even little nuanced things like, if I have a plane iron that's just off the boil, maybe a block plane on a piece of end grain. Pop it out and just hand hone it on the honing wheel with a bit of paste and that will bring it back, no need to set the jigs up. Same with Kitchen knives or pen knives etc. That honing wheel is a very handy and quick to use tool in its own right once you have the confidence and trust it.

 

[custard]

Excellent summary Bob, all the key information objectively and tidily laid out from a guy with first-hand experience.

Much more stuff like that and the internet is at risk of becoming a useful resource!

 

[MusicMan]

Thanks Bob, a great summary. I've had mine for about 25 years and use it regularly.

I second what you say about wheel dressing. I habitually start a session by dressing the stone with the coarse side, then the speed is not bad at all. Then I dress with the fine side and finish off (then hone). This way, I have never noticed the wheel clogging. The efficient way is to do a number of similar tools in one session. In between grinds, I either hone or use an oilstone to bring up the edge. For a teaching session last year I profiled/sharpened ALL my chisels and planes, including some damaged ones, and it only took about an hour. And there is no danger of losing the hardness of a blade. Even as a trained metallurgist I am leery of using the bench grinder. Remember that in industry, grinding is always done under continuous flow of coolant!

The most valuable thing about the Tormek for me is its precision. You can set any angle accurately and it will deliver. The jigs all work as they say they will. I use the planer blade jig on 12" deWalt lunchbox thicknesser quite frequently. Before I got the jig, I frankly ignored the planer blade sharpening and by the time I got it, the blades resembled the Himalayas, the surface was awful and the thing didn't work at all well. OK it took four hours on the jig to get them in shape (!), but the machine then cut like new. Now I sharpen whenever the planed surface is slightly off (or a blade gets nicked) and it only takes a few minutes including setting up. After four sharpenings, money is saved over purchasing replacement blades.

I appreciate that there are faster ways of removing bulk metal. Personally, I find it better than Bob does, but needs vary. I'm not a professional, and am on a fixed income pension. Time is not money, but final quality is. If it takes me fifteen minutes to reshape a badly damaged edge from, say, a car boot sale purchase, that's no big deal. A pro might well find it more cost effective to send planer blades etc. out for resharpening.

And as Bob says, RTFM!

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Excellent summary Bob, all the key information objectively and tidily laid out from a guy with first-hand experience.

Much more stuff like that and the internet is at risk of becoming a useful resource!

+ 1

 

[CHJ]

Well thought through comments Rob, if I was into cabinet making as a pastime using mainly hand tools it would be my system of choice to prevent me heat damaging fine edges, but I'd use the Pro-edge or Bench grinder for damage recovery and shaping.

As a hobby turner I was given the opportunity to review one * some years ago specifically aimed at Turning Tool sharpening but came to the conclusion that it was not a system of much use to me given that Plane and Chisel irons are not my main sharpening requirement.

This was a disappointment as I had seen that George Watkins (Cornucopia) was using a Tormek at one of Paul.J's bashes. and thought it would be worth the investment. (I believe he has since given up using one though due to excessive stone wear with HSS and Harder Steels)

* although published I was informed that it was not considered a Review by the supplier, more of a Critique and supply of future equipment was based on just providing a Review.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Well thought through comments Rob, if I was into cabinet making as a pastime using mainly hand tools it would be my system of choice to prevent me heat damaging fine edges, but I'd use the Pro-edge or Bench grinder for damage recovery and shaping.

As a hobby turner I was given the opportunity to review one * some years ago specifically aimed at Turning Tool sharpening but came to the conclusion that it was not a system of much use to me given that Plane and Chisel irons are not my main sharpening requirement.

This was a disappointment as I had seen that George Watkins (Cornucopia) was using a Tormek at one of Paul.J's bashes. and thought it would be worth the investment. (I believe he has since given up using one though due to excessive stone wear with HSS and Harder Steels)

* although published I was informed that it was not considered a Review by the supplier, more of a Critique and supply of future equipment was based on just providing a Review.

Your review is absolutely superb Chas.......its problem (for Tormek) is that you were of course....honest..... and in so doing revealed all the flaws of the system. Oddly, their marketing folks seem to have mislaid the pages containing that detail when they assembled the manual

 

[Littleoldman]

Glynne, sorry to take this time in getting back to you. Mine takes a lot of pressure to stop it. When you release the wheel it starts up in the wrong direction. Having never seen another working I thought that they all did this. I then have to switch it off wait until it stops then restart it I also push the wheel in the direction i want it to go.

 

[CHJ]

Does the Tormek have a start/run capacitor fed false phase winding to start it up in the required direction and increase torque in use, if so your symptoms might indicate that the capacitor is failing, it would also result in reduced torque when in use, easier to stop the wheel than when new.