Tool chest challenge - layout tools

[Frank D.]

Sorry to continue the hijack . I don't have a problem with the offset cutting edge. I hold it tilted, oh maybe 3 or 4°, and I also aim the cutting part of the blade slightly toward my tails. This keeps the knife from wandering, the cut pushes it against the tail, but the extra bevel keeps the cutting edge from digging in. I get good results, but I admit that my sawing leaves much to be desired since I don't get as much practice as I should, so paring before assembly is a necessity. But still, I pare right down to the line and everything usually fits...

 

[Alf]

Heck, this is interesting, even if we are hijacking Alf's thread.

As long as it's on topic, which it is, hijacking is virtually impossible in these threads. The whole idea is to promote discussion. BTW, beautiful knife handle, Frank.

The reason for including all the range of knives I did was because, at one time or another, all of them have been recommended as marking knives. Jeff Gorman has some in depth discussion on marking knife bevels and use here; he seems to favour Frank's method. I still don't feel I've found the knife myself, to be honest. It's very frustrating.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

I canna remember if it was Kirby (tho given Chris's post.. I have my doubts) or DC who recommends a single bevel, necessitating having both left and right handed varients. The logiv being that you mark the line with the bevel facing into the waste. That way you're not crushing the shoulder of the face you want to keep; you can place a tool right on the line with confidence that you're not slightly over it...

The highlighted drawback of the double bevel was that it places the cut away from the intended mark by the width of the bevel.. the single bevel by definitin ending up exactly where ya want it..

It was DC definitely, though Kirby could have said it too. But that's not what I mean by a 'v' type knife. What I mean is one of these: V knife

Single bevel, but V shaped so both left & right hand use.

 

[Midnight]

Single bevel, but V shaped so both left & right hand use.

Ahhhh... nuff said... damn good knives them... speaking as one using the right handed variant...

I guess the bottom line is (as Frank's post bears out), it really doesn't matter which type of knife you use so long as you understand its limitations and adjust technique to compensate... I gotta be careful not to overload the braincell.. hence the dedicated single bevel..

ummmmm.... am I the only guy who winces when someone quotes ya, typo's n all...????

 

[Alf]

Dunno what a pinch rod is

Sorry, Esp, I meant to answer this one earlier.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

Ahh, I see. Bunch of smarty-pants, these Lee Valley bods, eh?

 

[Alf]

Well it's an old trick; they just took it a step further by making a simple clamping arrangement so the laths don't slip. So yes, they're a bunch of smarty pants for building on historical precedent. :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[kygaloot]

Yes, this is an old system. I seem to recall Krenov illustrating their use in one of his books. Confession: I even saw Norm use them on a carcase once. He must have left his tape measure on his toolbelt at the This Old House building site.

LV, as usual, improved on the original concept.

Jeff

 

[Shady]

To get back to the original question ( :wink: ) -

Beam trammels Alf - don't see any - essential for those 'big' circles you need to mark out.

 

[Alf]

To get back to the original question ( :wink: ) -

Beam trammels Alf - don't see any - essential for those 'big' circles you need to mark out.

Shady, you're right. I don't have any, and I have felt the lack of them. Trouble is they command high prices both old and new (well too high for me at the minute anyway) and the tuit to make my own has yet to surface. So yep, definitely "beam trammel futures" on the list.

So folks, no one but Esp brave enough to make their selection known? For shame. The silence on the subject suggests you all have a use for everything too. I'm impressed, 'cos I'm not sure I do. Pop quiz on why you need one of everything on Monday then...?

Cheers, Alf

 

[kygaloot]

Alf,

The only items that I would add to your “setting out” kit is

1.Trammel points (or beam compass), as mentioned

2.Centre-finding gauge – easily made.

I would suggest eliminating

1.Three of the smaller steel engineer's squares. Keep the largest one (6”?) as it seems to fall between the two Sorby's.

2.Both combination squares. You have the Japanese square/mitre for 45°. The smaller adjustable precision square will meet any need for an adjustable square.

3.Three bevel gauges seem a bit excessive. The wooden gauge seems to be a size duplication and it does not have the “sliding” feature. However, perhaps it is the product of your own hands, and if you are like me, cold rational thinking does not always guide these decisions. If that is the case, keep it.

4.Digital caliper. Nothing with a digital readout, (or a laser) belong in a galoot's toolkit. It is simply a philosophical case of oil and water.

5.The metal folding ruler. It is a duplication, and further, it uses the culture destroying, utopian metric system. Come on, you are English! I would prefer the older style folding rule as they can lay flat. As far as measuring larger dimensions (over 24”), I expect that the tape measure is most often the choice. So on second thought, eliminate both folding rules.

6.Pare the marking gauges down to two marking gauges (one metal point, one pencil), one cutting gauge, and one mortice gauge.

7.Swiss army knife. No need for MacGyver-esque exploits in the wood shop. You can grab a chisel and slice off a nice a sliver of wood if you need a toothpick, and you have no need for the corkscrew since you would never “drink and saw”. With this style of striking knife, most of the items could be eliminated.

8. Two of the levels. I very rarely have had need for a level in building furniture. Just in case keep the middle sized one.

Jeff
the mimimalist

 

[kygaloot]

I don't know what a "mimimalist" is but it might be someone who lacks the ability to spell "minimalist"

Jeff

 

[Midnight]

It is a duplication, and further, it uses the culture destroying, utopian metric system. Come on, you are English

ummm... Jeff... I hate to say this but in the UK, we abandoned the Stone Age system over 30 years ago... y'all need t get with the program dude..

 

[Chris Knight]

we abandoned the Stone Age system over 30 years ago.

Mike, It's a tragedy but we had to. You see, after my generation, all the kids that were born subsequently seem to have been mentally deficient, or do I mean deficient in mental arithmetic? Either way, they just couldn't handle the far more versatile duodecimal system. The result is that Englishmen are being brought down to the level of the French.

Unfortunately, the dumbing down of our system of counting notwithstanding, the average checkout person still seems to need a calculator to make change when I proffer a pound for a newspaper.

 

[Anonymous]

I believe it's been mentioned in another thread that Alf is of the metric generation, which is why I advised ditching the imperial folder for the metric one.

If you, or she, were of the imperial, I would have ditched t'other. For me, it's metric all the time, if you don't mind.

And is this necessarily a gallootish tool chest? We already know it's not entirerly neander, after all!

 

[kygaloot]

Yes....we colonists do feel the heavy burden of conserving Anglo-Saxon culture against the assimilation of the global industrial Borg. We have fought bravely, sometimes against our own Presidents. Resist we do, yet not in futility. And particularly as galoots, we know there is more to life than the cold, sterile efficiency of the metricist. We value tradition, for though it may be clumsy, it is not boring. Nay, we enjoy the rich tapestry of history that lay behind the foot, furlong, and farthingdale.

To that, I think I will raise a pint!

Jeff

**************************

METRIC MADNESS
Volodimir Barabash

Pipe the newest tune of madness,
For this country's citizens,
Who are struck by metric madness...
Poor and helpless denizens.

Watch those drivers on the highways,
Ringed with frowns and without smiles,
As they labour how to render
Kilometers into miles.

On hour housewives show your pity,
As they ply their daily rounds.
To grams all must be converted.
No more ounces...no more pounds.

Voice your feelings for the farmers.
For their daughters and their sons.
They must tabulate in kilos.
No more bushels...no more tons.

And what about all those tradesmen,
Carpenters and engineers.
Draughtsmen, chemists and all others.
For them we should shed our tears.

Teachers, preachers, politicians.
Printers, newsmen...victims all.
Let us hope this metric fever
Will not drive us up the wall.

 

[Alf]

I may be of the metric generation, but I've been turned into a raving imperialist* by necessity. (*That's a pun, btw. Gettit?)

Now this is interesting, I expected universal cries of "dump the wooden stocked squares", "use the combination square and lose the bevels" and other such rational thinking. Does a carpenter's pencil really have a place in a furnituremaker's tool chest? Here's my go then:

Angle measuring tools
Big and little sliding bevels
Bevel Boss (makes things a little quicker than changing heads on a combination square). Also acts as a rule and straight edge, albeit in inches...
Dovetail gauge - just 'cos it's a little quicker than using the little bevel and a square seperately

Gauges
I've realised I forgot the butt gauge, but no matter 'cos I'm not picking it.
Wheel gauge
3 in 1 gauge
"BugBeared" cutting gauge
Combination mortise gauge (pin as well - second one in. No one wondered what the subtle difference between the two was then? )
Pencil gauge

Repeat after me - you can never have enough gauges. :wink:

Knives, pencils and such
C'mon folks, no-one needs that many knives! This was an obvious place for elimination.
Pencil compasses
Both dividers - at least the big ones maybe only until I can get some trammel heads. I probably ought to knock the rust off them though.
Mechanical and 2B pencil
R/H marking knife and craft knife. Oh, and the Sloyd for sharpening the pencil...

The marker pens were a bit of a red herring - I use them mainly for sharpening to see where I'm removing metal. What do others use them for? The penknife has never been in the workshop before, it was just there because they've been suggested as a marking knife before now.

Rules etc
I know it's not galootish, but the digital caliper stays - I can actually read it for a start.
24", 12" & 6" steel rules
Tape measure

I love folding rules to bits, but I can't use the blooming things. If they get voted in, so be it and I'll have to learn for the duration. If not I'll have to curb my enthusiasm for them and sell all six I have...

Squares
12" combination square
4" double square
6" engineer's square
Japanese mitre square
pinch rods

I probably should have mentioned the 8" engineer's square which acts as the workshop "standard" to check the rest with. Sorry. The 4" double square has rendered most of the smaller engineer's squares usefullness obsolete. As long as it stays square of course...

Levels etc
Winding sticks
12" level

If someone can tell me what they use a plumb bob for in furnituremaking, please do. I haven't in 20 years, but it was in the list in Choosing and using hand tools, so in it went. The chalk line probably ought to be in there for marking boards for ripping, but I can't honestly remember the last time I used it. And levels? Heck folks, there's a level on the combination square! :roll: The one that gets the nod does so for sentimental reasons - it came in the chest.

Okay, so tell me the glaring ommission I haven't spotted...

Cheers, Alf

 

[Midnight]

Chris wrote...

You see, after my generation, all the kids that were born subsequently seem to have been mentally deficient, or do I mean deficient in mental arithmetic? Either way, they just couldn't handle the far more versatile duodecimal system.

Being from the first class to be educated from the ground up in metric, you can imagine the consternation at the sudden exposure to this new system, pre-school exposure being entirely imperial.. however, cope we did despite the instant alienation of any non teaching adult... they simply didn't speak "our" language...
In, through, and out the other side of the education system, metric through and through... dropped into the deep end of industrial apprenticeships, fightin' fit... itchin t kick some azz... to be met with ye aulde methods.. say wha...? get with the program... that chit's obsolete dontchya know...
Oh REALLY...????
So rather than demonstrate a mental deficiency... we've had to prove a super proficiency in mental arithmetic, forced to become conversant with a system we'd never been educated in... chastised if we dared revert back into ways that we've more conversant with...
Fortunately, them days are long gone... the need for conversance being limited to the occasional stone age drill bit size... that is, until you try to work with ply and routers... a half inch bit does not a decent dado make for 12mm ply... anyone ever see a 12mm template bit..??? Ridiculous situation...

As for the current generation... I can honestly claim that I've had no part in it... raise kids with a game pad in one hand, coke tins in the other... an chit happens...

 

[Anonymous]

To that, I think I will raise a pint!

Would that be an imperial pint, or the short measure that passes for a pint in the US? <innocent look>

 

[Midnight]

Jeff wrote...

We value tradition, for though it may be clumsy, it is not boring.

Tradition..??

well.. I'll grant you, you're safe enough while wood working... for a while at least... industry though.. that's a different beastie alltogether...

case in point... a wee sketch for ya... typical exerpt from my working day...

"Hey Mike... I canna get a screw t fit these holes... do you ha'e ony the right size...??"

"Fit holes...?? far are ye...??... Ohhh THEM..??? Och.. yon's some stupid Septic BS... #8/24's or somethin... ye've mare chance o findin blue hens' teeth than findin them..."

"Ohh.. so how do I bolt this on then...??"

"Nae bother... rin a 4.2mm drill through the bush.. tap it oot t M5... help yersel t the screws... sorted...!!"


this is efficient..???

given that the rest of the planet is metric... y'all need to figure where your markets are... and change accordingly... move with us or be left behind... your choice...