Tool chest challenge - layout tools

[kygaloot]

Espedair Street wrote,

Would that be an imperial pint, or the short measure that passes for a pint in the US?

As a colonist, I only know a system based on the original English wine gallon and its fractions thereof (quart, pint). We remained steadfast to that heritage, whilst our recently departed English brethren couldn't decide between the wine gallon and ale gallon, and therefore chose the new fangled imperial gallon. So when I raise a pint, I am being true to the original English measure. But I tell you what, I would happily adopt gills, nips, noggins, flagons, firkins, kilderkins,hogsheads, or puncheons with all of their colorful heritage, than the bland, clinical litre and its related "age of reason" decimal equivalents.

Jeff

 

[kygaloot]

Mike wrote,

given that the rest of the planet is metric...

Yes, I work in heavy industry as a rude mechanikal. The industrialists have forced us to use the metric fasteners. I bow and obey as a submissive servant so as to receive my tuppence. Plate, structural beams, and pipe on the other hand will remain steadfastly English for my remaining years on this good earth. Would you care to guess what type of pipe and related fittings predominate in China?

y'all need to figure where your markets are... and change accordingly... move with us or be left behind... your choice...

Spoken in true Maastricht fashion. Oh....please leave us behind kind sir! We don't want our village shopkeepers to end up in gaol for using historically meaningful measures.

Jeff

who chuckles whenever he hears his Euro friends describe the weight of something in kilograms which of course is no weight at all, but mass......as if they were living and breathing outside the earth's atmosphere.

 

[Aragorn]

Alf
I've also gone for a more minimal approach.
Sorry for the delay, but here's my shot:

Squares
Large wooden handled square
12" combination
Oh and, go on, have that new little one as well
6" engineers

Angle Measuring Tools
Large and/or small sliding bevel
Bevel Boss

Rules and measuring
Tape measure
Digital calipers
6" and 12" rules

Gauges
Wheel gauge
3 in 1
Bugbear
Pencil

Knives & Pencils
Mechanical pencil (& leads)
Add in a red pencil
Add in chalks
Pencil compasses
One of those knives! Don't mind which

Levels & Straight edges
Couple of levels
Winding Sticks

What you can't layout or measure with that lot deserves to be cut freehand anyway!

 

[Alf]

By gum, Aragorn's on topic... :shock: :roll:

Okay, why the 12" wooden stocked one? I was pretty sure that one was going to get the boot, but it keeps getting the vote. :? No dovetail gauge eh? Boo hiss. Erm, no mortise gauge either? That's going to cause me some unnecessary grief isn't it? No mortiser here, remember. Chalks, damn. Knew I'd forgotten something vital. Good call. Now do tell; what d'you use a red pencil for? And a couple of levels? You'd have liked the original owner of the chest; he had three. :wink:

Well this all helpful stuff, 'cos it's certainly getting me thinking about what I really need, as opposed to what I just like. Even if I'm not getting enough input to reach a consensus... :roll:

Cheers, Alf

 

[kygaloot]

Alf,

Sorry for the detour.

I have a 4", 6", and 12" square. I tend to reach for my 4" square for almost all my joinery needs. When I am setting out to crosscut, it is usually a board greater than 6" in width, so the 12" is used. Hence, I rarely use the 6" square for much of anything. As to why one would keep the 12" square over the combination square? Well, who really enjoys fiddling with those things?

In all of these catagories, my inclination is to use the smallest size available that is fit for the job barring some tools which are too small for my hands.

Jeff

 

[Aragorn]

I'm with Jeff on the wooden stocked one. I don't like combination squares for actually marking square! I use them all the time, but more as a marking gauge when I want a pencil line, as a depth gauge, or to find the centre of a board by measuring in from both sides.
In't other words, I use the wooden stocked for square, and I just like them. 8)
No dovetail gauge was deliberate, but have one if you must :roll:
Lack of mortice gauge was not deliberate. Add this to the list, of course.
I use a red pencil (crayon actually sharpened to a fine point) for marking up on woods that do not show a pencil line very well. I don't like making great big pencil marks on everything because the lead really gets into the grain. When you're using just light lines, a pencil mark quickly gets lost on black walnut.
2 levels? Yes, I like levels too! :lol:

Yes, sorry for veering back on topic. Unusual for me, I know.

 

[Midnight]

Alf... did you ever settle on mortice gauges...?? Just curious if you're an 1 or 2 gauge kinda person...

 

[Alf]

Alf... did you ever settle on mortice gauges...?? Just curious if you're an 1 or 2 gauge kinda person...

2 gauge kinda person? Is this just an accurate judgement on my inability to choose one or the other? Or a technique using two gauges?

Cheers, Alf

 

[Midnight]

inability...???? sheesh.... an here's me thinkin you'd read DC too...

both guages are handed... kinda sorta... innies n outies.. pins filed to give vertical faces on either their inner face (marking tennons) or their outer face (marking mortices)... single bevel theory as per marking knives applies...

I'm guessing the same goes for a marking gauge... cutting guage blades can be reversed for the same effect..

 

[Alf]

Well that's what I guessed, but I thought I'd see what you meant. :wink: Now I have to ask the question; just how vital is it to have "handed" bevels for marking a tenon? Really? if you saw to the line then it doesn't appear to make a heap of difference which side your bevel is, and when you come to tweak it with chisel or plane, how many of us are going to plane exactly to the line and then check the fit? And if you do do that, how often are you spot on? :twisted:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Midnight]

And if you do do that, how often are you spot on?

herrumph...

in short... every time... isn't that what it's 'sposed to be..???

Ahem...

and if you buy that I've a bridge I'd like t show ya... :wink:

I thought DC's argument held water though; the deeper the line is scribed, the wider it becomes, making the potential error all the greater. Use the same method on the mating half of the joint and you've doubled the error.

Another point he had was that once a guage is set for a size, it shouldn't be changed till all the joints using that size have been cut, checked and passed as good enough. That has the potential to justify having a fair few guages, each set to it's own particular size..

Admittedly, that's not what I have currently, I've no idea where the line should be drawn... but trying to cover everything with just the one guage struck me as having lots of potential for errors creeping in... I've enough of that mess as it is...

 

[Alf]

I thought DC's argument held water though; the deeper the line is scribed, the wider it becomes, making the potential error all the greater. Use the same method on the mating half of the joint and you've doubled the error.

Can't argue with that. But it comes down to the whole idea of whether you shoot for tenons straight to your gauged lines without physically checking the fit as you go. I don't. Okay, I can't would be more accurate; not if I want them to fit anyway. So the infinitesimal benefit of a handed gauge is pointless as far as I can see (unintended pun). Not that I'm not willing to be persuaded otherwise, but at the moment I'm not convinced.

Another point he had was that once a guage is set for a size, it shouldn't be changed till all the joints using that size have been cut, checked and passed as good enough. That has the potential to justify having a fair few guages, each set to it's own particular size..

Now that's a reason I'm more than happy to embrace - in fact I already have... If you think you've seen all my gauges you're sadly deluded.

Cheers, Alf

 

[kygaloot]

Well, I see we need mortise gauges like Norm needs routers.

I think that this depends on one's technique. If one is using mortise chisels, the gauge is set from the mortise chisel itself. The lines for the mortise are really only providing boundaries for centering the chisel. The “hugging” effect advantage of filed pins in terms of controlling the marks with reference to the gauge fence, can be easily duplicated with a traditional gauge pin by simply applying the needed pressure to the fence during use.

Combined with the tenon approach described by Alf, all the fussing about with multiple gauges, filing innies and outies can be avoided.

Jeff